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I have been saying this fro at least 4 years now and people act like I'm delusional.People who have either moved away since the 90's think Atlanta just has not changed as much as it has.Those who have seen it again are amazed.
Im surprised that a city like St.Louis,New Orleans,and Cleveland have a higher percentage of car ownership.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
In all fairness I would have to guess that some of these folks are not car-free by choice. As to the 30% without drivers licenses, I don't know whether that's voluntary or not.
Does it really matter though? Is there something more noble about say an upper middle class individual such as myself who voluntarily goes car free and takes public transportation/walks all the time rather than someone too poor to own a car and is "forced" to use public transportation/walk to get to where they need to go?
No matter the reason why, the fact remains that a little over 1/4 of the households in the City of Atlanta do not own a car at all. Then more than likely a several thousand people are just like myself who do own a car, but only use it once or twice a week and utilize MARTA for most of their transportation needs.
In essence, the city of Atlanta is a lot less car dependent than people think. In fact we're pretty much on par with other cities of similar size (and in many cases far ahead of some). The question is why this isn't recognized more often. My guess is that most studies/papers on life in Atlanta focus more so on the suburbs which are indeed car dependent for the most part with only spotty public transportation access. They totally ignore how in the city proper and inner suburban areas it's a totally different story.
Yea I definitely agree about the welcome changes and I get tired of people from every other point in the US making fun of MARTA for its well known acronym. I ride MARTA to and from work if it's not too hot out (have to wear a suit even in the summer and MARTA often lacks proper AC), and during rush hours the crowds on MARTA are 90% working people, which is great.
However, there is a definite difference in demos between the N-S line and the E-W line. I will not take the train to Decatur, especially during off-business hours. I will not take the train back from the airport if my plane arrives at night either. It's just a fact of life. I am not being racist for not doing that, but I have had a couple of incidents on MARTA before, one of which was last year at night in the Art Center station where I was the ONLY white person and just minding my own business when a group of thugs literally came up and beat the crap out of me. They didn't even steal anything, which I would have preferred to a hospital visit, but one was arrested, so that was good. I was dressed nicely and these were straight thugs, so I think they thought I was rubbing my "whitey wealth" in their face (which I was not even talking to them) and I did not let one "borrow" my cell phone. Sad thing is of all the 30+ people around, nobody did anything to help or cool the situation and the MARTA cops were not as helpful as I would have expected (they were walking out of the coffee room upstairs as I was running up from the platform spewing blood everywhere and they weren't even concerned!).
That brief story is not a reason not to ride MARTA and hopefully we expand MARTA so that it does not go from just point A to point B and the more "regular" people that ride it of all colors, ages, sexes, etc the less noticeable and potent the thug groups will be on the trains. Anyone familiar with the DC system knows that it goes literally "everywhere" and everyone takes the train. I would almost feel completely comfortable taking most routes in DC at night if I was alone and female. Atlanta is not at that point yet, but we will only get there if we maintain or increase security and expand the system to go to more places that people need/want to go.
Yea I definitely agree about the welcome changes and I get tired of people from every other point in the US making fun of MARTA for its well known acronym. I ride MARTA to and from work if it's not too hot out (have to wear a suit even in the summer and MARTA often lacks proper AC), and during rush hours the crowds on MARTA are 90% working people, which is great.
However, there is a definite difference in demos between the N-S line and the E-W line. I will not take the train to Decatur, especially during off-business hours. I will not take the train back from the airport if my plane arrives at night either. It's just a fact of life. I am not being racist for not doing that, but I have had a couple of incidents on MARTA before, one of which was last year at night in the Art Center station where I was the ONLY white person and just minding my own business when a group of thugs literally came up and beat the crap out of me. They didn't even steal anything, which I would have preferred to a hospital visit, but one was arrested, so that was good. I was dressed nicely and these were straight thugs, so I think they thought I was rubbing my "whitey wealth" in their face (which I was not even talking to them) and I did not let one "borrow" my cell phone. Sad thing is of all the 30+ people around, nobody did anything to help or cool the situation and the MARTA cops were not as helpful as I would have expected (they were walking out of the coffee room upstairs as I was running up from the platform spewing blood everywhere and they weren't even concerned!).
That brief story is not a reason not to ride MARTA and hopefully we expand MARTA so that it does not go from just point A to point B and the more "regular" people that ride it of all colors, ages, sexes, etc the less noticeable and potent the thug groups will be on the trains. Anyone familiar with the DC system knows that it goes literally "everywhere" and everyone takes the train. I would almost feel completely comfortable taking most routes in DC at night if I was alone and female. Atlanta is not at that point yet, but we will only get there if we maintain or increase security and expand the system to go to more places that people need/want to go.
I can Understand why you feel how you feel but please dont say Marta isnt Safe.. Its one of the safiest transit systems in America. DC NYC philly have had far more incidents then our train... You just was the Victim that night.. But thats not to say it wouldnt happen to you anywhere else..
^^^ Actually if you read my whole post I tout MARTA and I never said the whole thing was unsafe (there are lines in DC that are unsafe, I indirectly said that, too). By the way when you say "I was the victim that night" you make it sound unsafe and that anyone riding has a chance of being "the victim" which is true of any system, but you don't make it sound any safer than I did.
DC, NYC, and Philly should have more incidents than MARTA considering those systems are all at least twice or three times the size, and Philly is a pretty rough city; anyone who has been there or has family there knows that. DC has some very rough patches, too, and I would not ride the NYC subway at night, I would prefer a cab over that system at night. Atlanta has limited routes and one route in particular (E-W line) goes almost entirely through rougher patches and does not hit points where professionals work, so therefore there is a seedier element that rides that route. The N-S route is also fairly limited and does not hit enough spots. Half of it lies in a rougher patche, too.
I am a big fan of public transportation and overall infrastructure improvements, always have been, but to make other people fans, too, we have to be realistic about current problems and how to get around them. MARTA needs to be expanded to go more places, and I still think security needs to at minimum be maintained at current levels and should in fact be increased.
I don't have to ride MARTA, and that incident did shake me up pretty badly (I am a very innocent white boy who has never witnessed a similar situation, let alone one in which I was involved). I still take MARTA when I can because I am that big of a fan of public transit. I drive a nice German car, believe me when I say I don't have to take MARTA if I don't have to.
^^^ Actually if you read my whole post I tout MARTA and I never said the whole thing was unsafe (there are lines in DC that are unsafe, I indirectly said that, too). By the way when you say "I was the victim that night" you make it sound unsafe and that anyone riding has a chance of being "the victim" which is true of any system, but you don't make it sound any safer than I did.
DC, NYC, and Philly should have more incidents than MARTA considering those systems are all at least twice or three times the size, and Philly is a pretty rough city; anyone who has been there or has family there knows that. DC has some very rough patches, too, and I would not ride the NYC subway at night, I would prefer a cab over that system at night. Atlanta has limited routes and one route in particular (E-W line) goes almost entirely through rougher patches and does not hit points where professionals work, so therefore there is a seedier element that rides that route. The N-S route is also fairly limited and does not hit enough spots. Half of it lies in a rougher patche, too.
I am a big fan of public transportation and overall infrastructure improvements, always have been, but to make other people fans, too, we have to be realistic about current problems and how to get around them. MARTA needs to be expanded to go more places, and I still think security needs to at minimum be maintained at current levels and should in fact be increased.
I don't have to ride MARTA, and that incident did shake me up pretty badly (I am a very innocent white boy who has never witnessed a similar situation, let alone one in which I was involved). I still take MARTA when I can because I am that big of a fan of public transit. I drive a nice German car, believe me when I say I don't have to take MARTA if I don't have to.
I Read the whole post and I sympathized with U .. Trust I have scene my share on Marta myself... You have some blacks that are kinda iffy about riding to the southside.
Does it really matter though? Is there something more noble about say an upper middle class individual such as myself who voluntarily goes car free and takes public transportation/walks all the time rather than someone too poor to own a car and is "forced" to use public transportation/walk to get to where they need to go?
Yes, it matters, but not because of "nobility" or anything like that.
For one thing, the number of riders who voluntarily choose MARTA is significant because it tells you something about how effective public transit has been in penetrating the market of those who riding out of choice rather than necessity.
It also tells you a lot about how to deploy our limited resources. For instance, should service cuts be made in areas where people have no way of getting around other than public transit (e.g., Clayton County)? Or should the burden of those cuts fall on areas where more people have cars? Should we focus on developing transit in affluent midtown or Buckhead, or prioritize lines along the Buford Highway?
And what are the politics of these options? Are riders who go car-free by choice as needy as those who do it by necessity? Will by-choice areas subsidize by-necessity areas or will they insist on equal access?
If you're looking at a city where all riders essentially stand equal from an economic standpoint and transit is simply a question of who chooses to ride and who doesn't that's one thing. Those decisions may be based on things like convenience, the desire to "go green," to reduce traffic or create a more urban feel, and so forth.
But there's a very different dynamic involved when you factor in a large percentage of riders for whom those choices are irrelevant.
I don't have to ride MARTA, and that incident did shake me up pretty badly (I am a very innocent white boy who has never witnessed a similar situation, let alone one in which I was involved). I still take MARTA when I can because I am that big of a fan of public transit. I drive a nice German car, believe me when I say I don't have to take MARTA if I don't have to.
Sorry to hear about this incident, but I really appreciate you sharing it. I'm not in a position in which MARTA is particularly convenient for me, though I was considering using it to go to and from the airport on occasion. (I'd have to take a very short bus ride to get to the N-S line, though.)
Could you be more specific about particular times of day to avoid? Or particular stops/areas? I was hoping to take MARTA back from the airport at nite on rare occasions, but if it's sketchy maybe I won't bother.
I'd also love to hear other MARTA riders' opinions to see if they agree with you.
I have to preface that I think it matters how you appear and carry yourself as to your likelihood of being a victim of certain criminal elements. I happen to be blonde hair-blue eyed, and I dress "well" and part my hair (I am also not very large and/or muscly), so I give off immediate perceptions that I am an easy target and I must be filthy rich because of that stuff so I "should" be targeted. I am actually just a poor college student, so anyone who robs me will be very disappointed. I think if you give off a different kind of vibe than myself, you will be fine anywhere anytime. I must "offend" certain people, and I really don't mean to, but these people have chips on their shoulder and are uneducated growing up in rough areas, so I have an inkling of sympathy.
That being said, if you are like me you would be wise to always travel in groups at night, never alone, and during the day just use the N-S line however you like. Sometimes if I get a bad vibe, I will try to spot an officer and ride on the same car or I will just ride in the front car where the conductor is. If you are getting bad vibes from certain people, avoid them, don't make eye contact, and just find a better appearing group of people.
This probably makes MARTA seem bad, but I have had to learn street smarts the hard way that come as common sense to people. If you have good street smarts, you will be fine without issue. I do however think it is best to avoid the E-W line, and unfortunately if you ride the system a lot, you will have to use the Five Points Station, which is the transfer station for both lines and can be rough. Just use caution and don't go there at night and/or alone. When I go to and fro work, even during rush hour when the trains are being used by all and are very safe, I still wear earbuds and mind my own business. MARTA is a great time to read, so bring a book, newspaper (I bring the newspaper and that also I think gives certain criminal elements or homeless people the "OK" to ask me for things/bug me), or a magazine.
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