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Old 10-21-2010, 02:08 PM
 
1,498 posts, read 3,093,936 times
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:12 PM
 
1,498 posts, read 3,093,936 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
In addition, he also left a huge mark on the British bands of the '60s (many of them covered his songs, and virtually all of them have named him as an influence/inspiration), the hard rock bands of the '70s (Aerosmith covered Brown's "Mother Popcorn", Led Zeppelin aped his sound on "The Crunge", etc.) and on Jazz (Miles Davis named Brown as a huge influence on his '70s output.)


Sorry Cobain, it's just not debatable.
James Brown may have been one of the most influential, but again the problem is that you cant seem to grasp the concept of facts vs. opinion. If it is a non-debatable fact that Brown is one of the most influential, then you would be able to answer these questions: what defines influential? How is it measured? Is that measurement objective or subjective? Is the influence on all musical genres considered, or only certain ones? Is a band simply saying he was influential enough? Or is it determined from their musical styles? If its measured by musical style, what is Brown's exact musical style? How is that defined?

You think that just because you have the inability to debate something means that it cannot be debated. That may be an easy way to go through life, but it isn't reality.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Decatur
461 posts, read 1,064,908 times
Reputation: 253
Cobain, you're just way off base period. There is nothing debatable about Georgia having a rich musical history, or that James Brown was a great influence on many rock bands, even your precious grunge/alternarock/indie bands. Why can't you just add Georgia bands that you like to the list that was presented instead of arguing it and turning it in to a race thing somehow? If you don't know of any, you should get out more. There's a flannel revival exploding all over the poncey highlands/lil 5 areas. I'm really sorry you missed it all the first time around.
I don't particularly like the Beatles, but I don't run around saying they were not influential. Some things you just know, and no one is going to break out the scientific method of which all of this was determined for you. It's just common sense.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:33 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,209,663 times
Reputation: 8003
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
James Brown may have been one of the most influential, but again the problem is that you cant seem to grasp the concept of facts vs. opinion. If it is a non-debatable fact that Brown is one of the most influential, then you would be able to answer these questions: what defines influential? How is it measured? Is that measurement objective or subjective? Is the influence on all musical genres considered, or only certain ones? Is a band simply saying he was influential enough? Or is it determined from their musical styles? If its measured by musical style, what is Brown's exact musical style? How is that defined?

You think that just because you have the inability to debate something means that it cannot be debated. That may be an easy way to go through life, but it isn't reality.

What defines influential? Try the dictionary.

Influence | Define Influence at Dictionary.com

James Brown's influence is objectively measured by the numerous artists who have either stated in print that James Brown was an influence on their music, or have covered his songs, or have copied some of his signature sounds (see the Zeppelin tune I mentioned earlier), or have sampled his songs. How are those things not objective?

The influence is mainly on western popular musical styles (rock/pop/funk/soul/rap/R&B, etc.), but his influence can be heard in the music from other parts of the world, too. Check out track three on this. If you don't hear James Brown's influence you're either deaf or dishonest:



Perhaps an artist saying he was an influence is not enough, but when they play his songs on their records, or sample his songs, or copy his sound, that IS enough. They play or sample or copy his music because it fits in stylistically with how they are trying to portray their own art. What more proof could you possibly need?

James Brown was mainly considered a funk, soul and R&B artist. I don't like try to describe sounds with words (maybe you've heard the saying that writing about music is like dancing about architecture). Just listen if you want the answer to that.

I think that answers all your questions.

By the way, I'm white and I've seen Nirvana in concert.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:47 PM
 
3,694 posts, read 5,936,656 times
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I think it should be rebranded as a Southern Music Museum or something and feature/play up the Georgia elements, sort of like how the Experience Music Project in Seattle encompasses all music, but with a focus on Seattle. It doesn't matter whether Georgia actually has one of the richest musical histories in the country--the perception is what gets people through the door, and I think a lot of people underestimate how much music Georgia has produced and hence don't bother.

And there's a reason the Experience Music Project isn't located in Spokane...
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:53 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,209,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
And there's a reason the Experience Music Project isn't located in Spokane...
Right, because Jimi Hendrix (of the Jimi Hendrix Experience and Are You Experienced? fame) was born in Seattle.

Someone's liable to come on here saying it's because of Nirvana and grunge.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:06 PM
 
3,694 posts, read 5,936,656 times
Reputation: 2965
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Right, because Jimi Hendrix (of the Jimi Hendrix Experience and Are You Experienced? fame) was born in Seattle.

Someone's liable to come on here saying it's because of Nirvana and grunge.
Also investing in such a museum in a place that doesn't get many tourists such as Spokane is typically not a good idea. You've got to decide whether someone you're building is a "destination" attraction or a side attraction.

It's going to be difficult to sell any music museum as a destination attraction, which people should be willing to go hundreds of miles out of their way for. Instead of a "must do", most people would probably call it an "also do". Add in that it's a Georgia-only music museum, and a lot of people don't naturally associate music with Georgia like they do Tennessee or Louisiana, and a lot of people wont consider it worth a stop on their drive to Florida.

I think a better marketing strategy would be to add it on to the list of different museums and stuff around downtown and people who are in the area for other purposes might see it and decide to check it out.

There's also an argument to be made for Savannah.
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:48 PM
 
1,498 posts, read 3,093,936 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
What defines influential? Try the dictionary.

Influence | Define Influence at Dictionary.com

James Brown's influence is objectively measured by the numerous artists who have either stated in print that James Brown was an influence on their music, or have covered his songs, or have copied some of his signature sounds (see the Zeppelin tune I mentioned earlier), or have sampled his songs. How are those things not objective?

The influence is mainly on western popular musical styles (rock/pop/funk/soul/rap/R&B, etc.), but his influence can be heard in the music from other parts of the world, too. Check out track three on this. If you don't hear James Brown's influence you're either deaf or dishonest:



Perhaps an artist saying he was an influence is not enough, but when they play his songs on their records, or sample his songs, or copy his sound, that IS enough. They play or sample or copy his music because it fits in stylistically with how they are trying to portray their own art. What more proof could you possibly need?

James Brown was mainly considered a funk, soul and R&B artist. I don't like try to describe sounds with words (maybe you've heard the saying that writing about music is like dancing about architecture). Just listen if you want the answer to that.

I think that answers all your questions.

By the way, I'm white and I've seen Nirvana in concert.
Music is an art, not a science. It may be common knowledge that most musicians accept something as true, but it is not the same as stating a scientific fact. I know some musicians would adamantly deny that they were influenced by Brown, even if they covered one of is songs.

Even though it is not fact, ill admit that it is widely acknowledged that James Brown is one of the most influential.

But your original, outlandish argument was that all five of the musicians were among the most influential of all time, and that it couldnt be debated otherwise, and even if it could, no signifigant portion of Western society would agree. That argument just doesn't stand, even if the James Brown one does.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,687,817 times
Reputation: 6512
I am not trying to argue for Savannah (keep in mind they didn't go to the meeting), but for the sake of generating discussion...

I would like to note that Atlanta already has so many museums now. Many conventioneers will opt to go to the aquarium or the World of Coke. However, there are so many tourists, even a small percentage of Atlanta tourists might support a new museum better.

However, Savannah has opportunity in that there are not many museums for tourists, tourists exist, and it is a great place to create a theme for tourists as a place to learn about Georgia history.

Even if there are fewer tourists then Atlanta, a greater percentage of Savannah tourist might be convinced to visit the museum.

The other topic to mention... really just fishing for ideas....

The museum was originally funded trying to attract part of the recording industry to Georgia. That part of it never really panned out. So I asked these questions... Where can this museum go to try to influence that Georgia is a good place for the recording industry to move to (on a larger scale)? and.. How can the museum be used to encourage that idea and make it happen?

Also... if it were to go in Atlanta... What if there was a much larger -Georgia History Museum- that could draw in alot of attention from a larger size and covered many more topics in one place at one moderate price. Then the music and sports museum could be housed as part of a Georgia History Museum.There are alreay existing organizations with the intellectual resources to help this happen, such as the Atlanta History Center, The New Georgia Encyclopedia project at UGA, Georgia Museum of Natural History. A larger complex/museum could help draw larger crowds and compete better.

Anyways... I am not trying to make arguments with this posting as much as generate discussion.... Any thoughts?
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:51 PM
 
2,590 posts, read 4,510,541 times
Reputation: 3065
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Please remember, as much as you might prefer otherwise, that we are communicating online, via computer. Yes, my screen name references Kurt Cobain, but you do not know me personally, nor do you know my views on Kurt Cobain, or how I "fell" for grunge (hard to do since I was 4 when Nevermind came out). It is just a screen name...

With that said, your views on Kurt Cobain, his influence, and grunge (used to describe a genre of rock) are extremely inaccurate. First of all, grunge refers to music, not some Gap model rocking flannel. Cobain himself hated it, but its how the genre of music is described (Grunge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

And grunge rock, while aged now (I mean it hasn't been 20 years or anything...), was still hugely significant stage in the history of rock that can't be understated, as significant as the British invasion or psychedelia. It changed rock music forever, especially in its relation to the demise of 80s Hair Bands. And just as those earlier formats of rock influenced grunge, grunge influenced alternative ("post-grunge") rock, which in turn influenced contemporary indie rock.

Your views are what they are - your views - but they show that you either have no clue when it comes to rock music or that you just want to score some brownie points by minimizing the influence of a musical genre that is largely dominated by whites.

In regards to your second statement, that "it's hard to argue against the fact", I am not buying your self-hating concept that whites must swallow without argument a theory (not a fact - there is a difference) that the only influential and long-lasting musicians are black, and that any white musician's success is the result of his imitation of a black musician.
Well, excuse me then. You fell for the repackaged version of grunge that has kept commercial rock radio on life support over the past decade. Like another poster I offer my condolences that you weren't there to experience all the poor rich kids whining in the midst of a great economy and virtually no war. I don't know how I survived such a horrible period in history...

It was a creature of marketing just as hair metal before it. Maybe Cobain was disgusted by that realization but instead of being a real artist and responding with something actually original he took another tact. Had he not taken things so damned seriously he might still be around and actually producing decent music.

Grunge did have an impact on music history. Not near the impact as the British invasion or psychedelia but it had some influence. Apparently it caused commercial rock radio to stagnate for the past 20 years as well. Indie has a different lineage with very few bands claiming influence by grunge. I think you are looking for the broader "alternative" label. Indie actually pre-dated grunge by a long time if you want to blur genres or get technical about it.

Don't try to school me on rock or any type of music for that matter bro. I've been a musician almost as long as you have been alive. I have studied and played just about every indigenous American genre as well as a lot of classical and other styles from around the world. Not too brag but I believe I know quite a bit more than the average person about music history and I may come across with my opinion but do know that it can be solidly backed up.

The original topic was the Georgia Music Hall of Fame and you claimed GA doesn't deserve its own music hof. You injected race into this with your "afro-centric" comment. I never said the ONLY influential musicians are black. However, your precious rock likely wouldn't be around if it wasn't for people like Little Richard or Ray Charles. There's no "self-hating" to it. I just know the history. If you want to continue to rant about there not being a Creed museum or something go right ahead but stop trying to play the race card in reverse.

Last edited by DTL3000; 10-21-2010 at 06:05 PM..
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