Design Your Own MARTA Expansion (Atlanta, Roswell: stats, warehouse, transportation)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by thumpcbd

Actually, it's generally parking minimum that determine density. London, Paris and others were developed when folks had to walk to their destination instead of drive. In many cities like ATL, with parking minimums, you have giant lots surrounding a destination that you have to drive to because of parking minimums mean you need a giant lot out side that prevents, or greatly precludes density without building expensive parking garages to house the cars. It start to become a catch-22 on density and transport using MARTA or another system.

MARTA doesn't go where you want because no one wants to get droped off 1/2 mile from their destination and walk through a parking lot waste land to reach their destintation. In London, NYC ect this doesn't happen since due to densisty, they are many shops close to the exit points of transport.

You can have parking requirements without having the parking lots all out front (see Lenox/Peachtree area or Edgewood Center for how not to make it walkable). Some municipalities encourage parking in the back. The idea of MARTA sponsored TODs does not encourage me. Here they are either vacant (see Lindberg) or they are unwalkable. I'd rather see some flexibility to get developers to come up with workable ideas and keep the government out.

[RandyWatson13]

Originally Posted by netdragon

I don't know why people talk about MARTA up I-75 to Cumberland. That route is served by CCT and a light rail connection to the arts center would most likely be CCT. A Perimeter-Cumberland connection would most likely be CCT as well since the current bus routes are CCT served.

CCT is no tiny transit system. CCT's route 10 along Cobb Parkway is the most used bus route in the entire Southeast.

MARTA will benefit from the CCT extensions. It will increase ridership. There is already a card-sharing program. It doesn't need to be named MARTA.

P.S. Another possibility is that it will be served by the Atlanta-Chattahoochee rail (or both)

Thanks. Will read up on CCT as I am not very up to date on it.

[thumpcbd]

Originally Posted by bu2

You can have parking requirements without having the parking lots all out front (see Lenox/Peachtree area or Edgewood Center for how not to make it walkable). Some municipalities encourage parking in the back. The idea of MARTA sponsored TODs does not encourage me. Here they are either vacant (see Lindberg) or they are unwalkable. I'd rather see some flexibility to get developers to come up with workable ideas and keep the government out.

Very true, but parking garages are very expensive and drive up the cost of a development, possibly pricing it right out viability. I do agree, that putting parking in the rear may help a bit, but then you have zoning issues with set backs, maintaining building/store entrances in two areas. Furthermore, parking in the rear doesn't make somoene want to talk from a train station to a store, if cars are going "fast" down the road right next to you, while you walk from the train stations on the side walk.

[NYbyWAYofGA]

I posted this streetcar power point link here because this thread seems to have morphed into a general Atlanta mass transit thread.

http://clatl.com/images/blogimages/2...2-11_final.pdf

[testa50]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

I posted this streetcar power point link here because this thread seems to have morphed into a general Atlanta mass transit thread.

http://clatl.com/images/blogimages/2...2-11_final.pdf

Thanks for posting this.

Here is the part of the presentation that interests me the most:



This map shows the idea for the next logical expansion: going north up Jackson, cutting over on Irwin (aka Lake/John Wesley Dobbs) and joining the Beltline alignment from there.

This is a good idea in my opinion. Jackson & Irwin Streets tend to be pretty light in terms of traffic and have a decent roadway width, so you'll have a lot less congestion than you would if you ran it on Auburn/Boulevard/Edgewood. There may even be room to create a dedicated lane in spots.

This will get us all the way up to N Highland, which is a very walkable area and one which desperately needs transit.

After this is done, the city will basically be in the clear to get the Beltline extended all the way up to Piedmont Park!

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by testa50

Thanks for posting this.

Here is the part of the presentation that interests me the most:



This map shows the idea for the next logical expansion: going north up Jackson, cutting over on Irwin (aka Lake/John Wesley Dobbs) and joining the Beltline alignment from there.

This is a good idea in my opinion. Jackson & Irwin Streets tend to be pretty light in terms of traffic and have a decent roadway width, so you'll have a lot less congestion than you would if you ran it on Auburn/Boulevard/Edgewood. There may even be room to create a dedicated lane in spots.

This will get us all the way up to N Highland, which is a very walkable area and one which desperately needs transit.

After this is done, the city will basically be in the clear to get the Beltline extended all the way up to Piedmont Park!

Oh-la-la...

[testa50]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Oh-la-la...

Yeah...wouldn't it be nice? The map doesn't even emphasize the fact that it makes it to that area.


On the other hand, the westward expansion doesn't thrill me. It doesn't seem like the first choice way to get between downtown and GA tech unless you extend it well up Tech Parkway. I guess you serve Coke, but that's not that big a deal to me. Ultimately, it would be great to extend that up to the 10th/Howell Mill area, but I'm not sure going up Luckie is the best way to achieve that.

Still, any plan that could get transit up to N Highland in a somewhat reasonable timeframe would be AOK. Also, it seems like this is basically an admission that the NE part of the Beltline will go first, and that the SE portion will require some major obstacles to be addressed which will take a long time.

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by testa50

Yeah...wouldn't it be nice? The map doesn't even emphasize the fact that it makes it to that area.


On the other hand, the westward expansion doesn't thrill me. It doesn't seem like the first choice way to get between downtown and GA tech unless you extend it well up Tech Parkway. I guess you serve Coke, but that's not that big a deal to me. Ultimately, it would be great to extend that up to the 10th/Howell Mill area, but I'm not sure going up Luckie is the best way to achieve that.

Still, any plan that could get transit up to N Highland in a somewhat reasonable timeframe would be AOK. Also, it seems like this is basically an admission that the NE part of the Beltline will go first, and that the SE portion will require some major obstacles to be addressed which will take a long time.

Agree completely here. It might make sense to extend it through Tech Parkway, up Northside and over to Atlantic Station, especially if the Beltline segment on the Westside ends up going north of the Waterworks. The Westside south of the waterworks is one of the denser areas intown (population wise), and it's woefully underserved by transit (and seems to keep getting ignored in all of the Beltline segment proposals I'm seeing lately). Georgia Tech and its surrounding neighborhoods need to be integrated better into this framework.

Why not have the streetcar extension go up Marietta to Howell Mill, then up Howell Mill? If they want to stimulate development with this streetcar stuff, the stretch on Marietta between Downtown and Northside seems like prime territory. There are already some cool buildings here and there--in addition to some seedy spots--but Marietta has always felt more like a streetcar street to me anyway.

[muxBuppie]

Originally Posted by thumpcbd

Actually, it's generally parking minimum that determine density. London, Paris and others were developed when folks had to walk to their destination instead of drive. In many cities like ATL, with parking minimums, you have giant lots surrounding a destination that you have to drive to because of parking minimums mean you need a giant lot out side that prevents, or greatly precludes density without building expensive parking garages to house the cars. It start to become a catch-22 on density and transport using MARTA or another system.

MARTA doesn't go where you want because no one wants to get droped off 1/2 mile from their destination and walk through a parking lot waste land to reach their destintation. In London, NYC ect this doesn't happen since due to densisty, they are many shops close to the exit points of transport.

If you can't walk half a mile that is your problem, not Marta's. People still have to walk in NYC.

[testa50]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

Agree completely here. It might make sense to extend it through Tech Parkway, up Northside and over to Atlantic Station, especially if the Beltline segment on the westside ends up going north of the Waterworks. The Westside south of the waterworks is one of the denser areas intown (population wise), and it's woefully underserved by transit (and seems to keep getting ignored in all of the Beltline segment proposals I'm seeing lately). Georgia Tech and its surrounding neighborhoods need to be integrated better into this framework.

Why not have the streetcar extension go up Marietta to Howell Mill, then up Howell Mill?

Well, those streets are pretty congested, but overall I agree. It's a dense area with lots of new development and more land for new stuff. There aren't really any NIMBYs trying to get projects blocked either, since it's an old industrial area--this has led to more density.

Maybe the best solution is the follow Tech Pky until 8th st and install a special left-turn signal there. Then have a counterclockwise loop that goes up Howell Mill and back down Brady. That way you get the benefit of being on Tech Pky the whole way and bypassing most of the congestion of Marietta.

That area would probably turn into GT student housing land, but hey, no idea is perfect.