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No that is wrong. They moved 2000 tech jobs to new space downtown, total Atlanta area layoffs were ~500 and included people still in suburban locations. Even if all 500 were intown it is still net + 1500 jobs for downtown. Furthermore the new space was in the Suntrust Plaza in the downtown core (as opposed to North Avenue), so it really helped the street life downtown.
You're only talking about this round of layoffs. They've been letting go of people ever since the merger with the bottler. At the time of the merger, they moved people out to their existing Cobb space and also to midtown because they literally did not have enough space downtown. Now they have space.
The problem with all these commuter lines is that they are all going downtown. Nothing is happening downtown. Midtown is getting job growth. But downtown is relying on Georgia State, state government, Georgia Tech and conventions. Otherwise, there would be a mass of empty buildings. The greatest proportion of those new jobs will not be downtown.
That's an excellent point that most new jobs in the Atlanta region likely will not be in Downtown Atlanta.
But even though most job growth in the Atlanta region likely will not be in Downtown Atlanta, Downtown Atlanta is still a massive hub of activity for the entire Atlanta region with:
> A 32,000-student university campus (a school in Georgia State with the 2nd-largest student body in the nation's 8th-most populated state)...
> Many federal courts and federal government offices that serve the entire Southeastern region of the U.S...
> The State Capitol complex of the nation's 8th-most populated state and the many state government offices that go along with it...
> The Georgia Dome/the new Falcons football stadium, which is expected to host Major League Soccer games in addition to hosting NFL games, major college and high school football games and major special events...
> Philips Arena, which in addition to hosting Atlanta Hawks NBA pro-basketball games also hosts many special events and concerts...
> The 4th-largest convention center complex in North America at the Georgia World Congress Center...
> One of the largest hotel districts on the entire North American continent that includes multiple hotels with as many as 1,000+ rooms, including the Westin Peachtree Hotel, the Marriott Marquis, the Hyatt Regency Atlanta, the Hilton Atlanta, the Ritz-Carlton Atlanta, the Omni Atlanta Hotel at CNN Center, etc...
> A major tourism-oriented park/museum district that includes the popular Georgia Aquarium, Centennial Olympic Park, the World of Coca-Cola, the Center for Civil and Human Rights, the College Football Hall of Fame and the Children's Museum of Atlanta...
> A major business and financial district that includes such major landmarks as the 191 Peachtree Tower, Peachtree Center, the Georgia-Pacific Tower, SunTrust Plaza, etc ...
> The Fairlie-Poplar Historic District.
Even with most of the region's job growth occurring outside of Downtown Atlanta at this point in time and into the future, the aforementioned locations of major public interest reflect that Downtown Atlanta is a massive center of regional activity that warrants being the site of a major regional high-capacity multimodal transit hub/transfer point.
Though bu2's comments do raise a very valuable point that there absolutely needs to be some kind of cross-regional high-capacity transit connectivity, particularly on the Northside of the region through Atlanta's very expansive Northern suburbs....Which is why the state has proposed that a high-capacity transit alignment be built along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter between Cumberland and Doraville by way of the Perimeter Center area.
Such a future high-capacity transit alignment along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter between Cumberland and Doraville could (and should) be utilized for the operation of future cross-regional east-west high-capacity passenger rail transit service between Cobb County (and Northwest Metro Atlanta) and Gwinnett County (and Northeast Metro Atlanta) after completion.
You're only talking about this round of layoffs. They've been letting go of people ever since the merger with the bottler. At the time of the merger, they moved people out to their existing Cobb space and also to midtown because they literally did not have enough space downtown. Now they have space.
You are doubling down on this I see. You are still wrong. The significance of Coke to this thread is that MARTA expansion serves jobs. You tried to dismiss that by incorrectly arguing that this did not represent new jobs near MARTA and that these people were going into existing office space. They leased new space at Suntrust for 2000 people that they did not previously occupy. This space is near MARTA. They did not retire any space downtown (nor did they retire space at North Avenue, but that is beside the point). 2000 new jobs were added to the Suntrust Building downtown which is right on the MARTA line. Whether total employment at Coke including a Coke bottler (located in Cobb) went down over a longer period of time is irrelevant.
Bottom Line: 2000 jobs were moved next to the MARTA line Downtown. None were taken away from that location.
According to the press releases, Coke chose the spot because of the attractiveness to the tech community and to the access to the high speed internet corridor that runs through downtown and midtown. Other tech businesses have chose midtown and downtown for the same reason. These new jobs will be served well by the current MARTA line and by expansions that remain focused on giving people access to downtown and midtown.
The problem with all these commuter lines is that they are all going downtown. Nothing is happening downtown. Midtown is getting job growth. But downtown is relying on Georgia State, state government, Georgia Tech and conventions. Otherwise, there would be a mass of empty buildings. The greatest proportion of those new jobs will not be downtown.
So all those places you mentioned don't deserve transit because...?
The problem with all these commuter lines is that they are all going downtown. Nothing is happening downtown. Midtown is getting job growth. But downtown is relying on Georgia State, state government, Georgia Tech and conventions. Otherwise, there would be a mass of empty buildings. The greatest proportion of those new jobs will not be downtown.
Two things here.
1. Given that Atlanta will get an MMPT someday soon, the Gulch site represents the most logical location because of the existing rail and transit infrastructure. Five Points station is walking distance away, and the major CSX and Norfolk Southern lines intersect there.
2. Most one of my proposed commuter rail lines has a stop within walking distance of a station other than Five Points (or Dome/Philips Arena/GWCC/WTF/LOL). This suggests that were it not feasible to run some or all of the lines downtown, they could just go to that station and stop. For example, my LaGrange, Peachtree City, and Clayton County/Lovejoy/Macon lines all run right by East Point station. That could serve as a temporary or permanent northern terminus of these lines, instead of the MMPT.
That's an excellent point that most new jobs in the Atlanta region likely will not be in Downtown Atlanta.
But even though most job growth in the Atlanta region likely will not be in Downtown Atlanta, Downtown Atlanta is still a massive hub of activity for the entire Atlanta region with:
> A 32,000-student university campus (a school in Georgia State with the 2nd-largest student body in the nation's 8th-most populated state)...
> Many federal courts and federal government offices that serve the entire Southeastern region of the U.S...
> The State Capitol complex of the nation's 8th-most populated state and the many state government offices that go along with it...
> The Georgia Dome/the new Falcons football stadium, which is expected to host Major League Soccer games in addition to hosting NFL games, major college and high school football games and major special events...
> Philips Arena, which in addition to hosting Atlanta Hawks NBA pro-basketball games also hosts many special events and concerts...
> The 4th-largest convention center complex in North America at the Georgia World Congress Center...
> One of the largest hotel districts on the entire North American continent that includes multiple hotels with as many as 1,000+ rooms, including the Westin Peachtree Hotel, the Marriott Marquis, the Hyatt Regency Atlanta, the Hilton Atlanta, the Ritz-Carlton Atlanta, the Omni Atlanta Hotel at CNN Center, etc...
> A major tourism-oriented park/museum district that includes the popular Georgia Aquarium, Centennial Olympic Park, the World of Coca-Cola, the Center for Civil and Human Rights, the College Football Hall of Fame and the Children's Museum of Atlanta...
> A major business and financial district that includes such major landmarks as the 191 Peachtree Tower, Peachtree Center, the Georgia-Pacific Tower, SunTrust Plaza, etc ...
> The Fairlie-Poplar Historic District.
Even with most of the region's job growth occurring outside of Downtown Atlanta at this point in time and into the future, the aforementioned locations of major public interest reflect that Downtown Atlanta is a massive center of regional activity that warrants being the site of a major regional high-capacity multimodal transit hub/transfer point.
Though bu2's comments do raise a very valuable point that there absolutely needs to be some kind of cross-regional high-capacity transit connectivity, particularly on the Northside of the region through Atlanta's very expansive Northern suburbs....Which is why the state has proposed that a high-capacity transit alignment be built along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter between Cumberland and Doraville by way of the Perimeter Center area.
Such a future high-capacity transit alignment along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter between Cumberland and Doraville could (and should) be utilized for the operation of future cross-regional east-west high-capacity passenger rail transit service between Cobb County (and Northwest Metro Atlanta) and Gwinnett County (and Northeast Metro Atlanta) after completion.
Yet the state would rather spend billions on road work that will be at capacity when finished. So this whole idea of top end transit is a fantasy, because they state could have used the 285/400 funds to implement it, but choose to continue on the mid 20th century thought process.
So all those places you mentioned don't deserve transit because...?
No, the point is that downtown is not growing its non-government jobs. Most job growth will be outside of downtown. Therefore an overly downtown-centric transit system like those 11 commuter lines will do a poor job of serving the area. Its one of the problems with our current arterial system. It looks kind of like those rail lines winding into downtown and not providing good cross-county/cross-area access. There needs to be a greater investment in lines that don't force you to go to downtown to transfer.
No, the point is that downtown is not growing its non-government jobs. Most job growth will be outside of downtown. Therefore an overly downtown-centric transit system like those 11 commuter lines will do a poor job of serving the area. Its one of the problems with our current arterial system. It looks kind of like those rail lines winding into downtown and not providing good cross-county/cross-area access. There needs to be a greater investment in lines that don't force you to go to downtown to transfer.
But that is where the existing rail lines converge. There are no rail lines running between the northern suburbs.
You are doubling down on this I see. You are still wrong. The significance of Coke to this thread is that MARTA expansion serves jobs. You tried to dismiss that by incorrectly arguing that this did not represent new jobs near MARTA and that these people were going into existing office space. They leased new space at Suntrust for 2000 people that they did not previously occupy. This space is near MARTA. They did not retire any space downtown (nor did they retire space at North Avenue, but that is beside the point). 2000 new jobs were added to the Suntrust Building downtown which is right on the MARTA line. Whether total employment at Coke including a Coke bottler (located in Cobb) went down over a longer period of time is irrelevant.
Bottom Line: 2000 jobs were moved next to the MARTA line Downtown. None were taken away from that location.
According to the press releases, Coke chose the spot because of the attractiveness to the tech community and to the access to the high speed internet corridor that runs through downtown and midtown. Other tech businesses have chose midtown and downtown for the same reason. These new jobs will be served well by the current MARTA line and by expansions that remain focused on giving people access to downtown and midtown.
They did retire other space in the downtown/midtown area. They had employees (I don't know the exact number) scattered at a couple of buildings in the area. They were able to relocate them because of this lease and layoffs on North Avenue. Total employment in the downtown area is relevant to this discussion.
But that is where the existing rail lines converge. There are no rail lines running between the northern suburbs.
And my point-It is a misallocation of resources to put so much into downtown when that is not where the job growth is.
They are still looking at a bus lane or HOT lane for the north side of 285, but like everything else, they haven't identified funding. If they ever get Cumberland/Galleria into MARTA, I think they need to take a hard look at running HRT from Doraville to Cumberland. Maybe the commute patterns don't support it, but it should be considered.
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