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Old 02-07-2011, 12:24 PM
 
60 posts, read 303,596 times
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I was all set to move to Johns Creek but now I'm having second thoughts. It seems like now even residents of Johns Creek are wondering if current taxes can truly be sustained to maintain roads and provide services.

I'd like to hear thoughts from residents of Johns Creek and other recently incorporated cities and see if they have any regrets on incorporating and if they are truly benefiting from a tax-savings perspective. I don't blame you for wanting to do your own thing, especially with Fulton not coming through. But coming from the north, I can tell you having independent governments instead of sharing with the county only leads to higher taxes. There are now referendums for consolidating services with the county including police, roads, and administrative functions. In fact, my town even by-passed the county. We have State Police as our lead law enforcement agency.

And secondly, what happens if Milton County passes? Who will be first to drop their governments and joined the County to benefit from economies of scale?
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:56 PM
 
16,626 posts, read 29,278,105 times
Reputation: 7550
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast2GA View Post
I was all set to move to Johns Creek but now I'm having second thoughts. It seems like now even residents of Johns Creek are wondering if current taxes can truly be sustained to maintain roads and provide services.

I'd like to hear thoughts from residents of Johns Creek and other recently incorporated cities and see if they have any regrets on incorporating and if they are truly benefiting from a tax-savings perspective. I don't blame you for wanting to do your own thing, especially with Fulton not coming through. But coming from the north, I can tell you having independent governments instead of sharing with the county only leads to higher taxes. There are now referendums for consolidating services with the county including police, roads, and administrative functions. In fact, my town even by-passed the county. We have State Police as our lead law enforcement agency.

And secondly, what happens if Milton County passes? Who will be first to drop their governments and joined the County to benefit from economies of scale?
Good post--especially coming from your perspective/background/experience.


It will be interesting to see the responses...
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,123 posts, read 6,514,196 times
Reputation: 569
As a resident of Dunwoody, I find that taxes are going up but to me it is 1000% worth it. We have already seen improved police services (Dekalb simply didn't have enough officers) and roads (our roads have become an embarrasment). Obviously there have been bumps along the road, but all told I would vote for cityhood again in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:11 PM
 
13,975 posts, read 25,815,937 times
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So far, so good in Milton:
Amid tough times, some cities log surplus funds *| ajc.com
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Alpharetta, GA
13 posts, read 23,165 times
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They should have formed Milton County before creating the three new cities. Incorporating the cities was politically easier, but with hindsight it appears stupid. There are so many redundant services offered by the various cities in north Fulton. It is truly a waste. At the end of all this, we will be able to say that four completely new forms of government were created out of thin air (Milton, JC, SS and Milton County) all offering the same services. For an area that is politically and fiscally conservative, I find this ironic.

Recently on my blog I predicted that Johns Creek's millage rate will exceed 6 mills in a few years. I stand by that prediction. Hopefully the county millage rate will drop to offset that (either by making Milton County or putting cost cutting pressure on Fulton).
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Odessa, FL
2,218 posts, read 4,347,859 times
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Have you read this?

Johns Creek studies tax rates *| ajc.com

I remember when the incorporation movement was winning people over by promising that taxes would not go up.

I have to say, as bad as it is in Johns Creek right now it was far far worse before incorporation. Nothing got done. All the money went down county and very little of it came back. Roads were in serious disrepair and way over capacity. Things changed significiantly for the better after incorporation (for the most part anyway.....unfortunately the police got meaner). Now it seems they've finally figured out that they really can't do it without raising taxes. But those that thought otherwise (and actually believed the pro-incorporation promises) were just deluding themselves.

Do I regret incorporation? I can't answer that anymore. We moved to a city that's been around since 1897. And I don't regret the move one bit.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Odessa, FL
2,218 posts, read 4,347,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast2GA View Post
There are now referendums for consolidating services with the county including police, roads, and administrative functions.
That only works if you have a functional county government. Fulton doesn't qualify. The primary reason incorporation happened, by far, was the complete disconnect between the citizens of north Fulton County and the well-entrenched majority of county commissioners. Developers' requests were rubber stamped and no money was allocated for infrastructure improvements or maintenance. It was so bad that the state finally gave up waiting for the county to kick in its share for the expansion of State Bridge Road and moved ahead without them. Bob Fulton had to fight tooth and nail just to get a library built in north Fulton.

Quote:
And secondly, what happens if Milton County passes?
It can only be an improvement.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,684,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rootsinalpharetta View Post
Hopefully the county millage rate will drop to offset that (either by making Milton County or putting cost cutting pressure on Fulton).
To not confuse others .... This already happened.
Fulton County dropped the millage rate on North Fulton and raised it on unincorporated South Fulton. Lack of overall millage rate reduction at this point purely rests on the city's management and/or the inefficiencies of having the smaller cities.

What I found interesting is North Fulton divided into so many cities instead of just one or two. If north Fulton was one city they might be able to get some of the economics of scale.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,116,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
What I found interesting is North Fulton divided into so many cities instead of just one or two. If north Fulton was one city they might be able to get some of the economics of scale.
Yeah, but look at the populations in those cities. When you take the north Fulton cities of Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Roswell, Milton, and Johns Creek, they are all pretty big individually, and since the cities of Roswell and Alpharetta have existed for years, you would have had Sandy Springs incorporate in 2005 and there isn't any contiguous land between them and either Milton or Johns Creek. The best you could have done is had Johns Creek and Milton combine....but why?

Roswell = 88K people
Sandy Springs = 86K people
Johns Creek = 70K people
Alpharetta = 50K people
Milton = 30K people

If you add up the populations, that's 324K people, about 2/3 of the size of the City of Atlanta. So when people talk about North Fulton like some small group of rich folks who want to screw Atlanta, it's a third of the total of Fulton County and equal to 2/3 the city of Atlanta.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,684,729 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Yeah, but look at the populations in those cities. When you take the north Fulton cities of Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Roswell, Milton, and Johns Creek, they are all pretty big individually, and since the cities of Roswell and Alpharetta have existed for years, you would have had Sandy Springs incorporate in 2005 and there isn't any contiguous land between them and either Milton or Johns Creek. The best you could have done is had Johns Creek and Milton combine....but why?

Roswell = 88K people
Sandy Springs = 86K people
Johns Creek = 70K people
Alpharetta = 50K people
Milton = 30K people

If you add up the populations, that's 324K people, about 2/3 of the size of the City of Atlanta. So when people talk about North Fulton like some small group of rich folks who want to screw Atlanta, it's a third of the total of Fulton County and equal to 2/3 the city of Atlanta.
They could have also originally had more annexations to Alpharetta and Roswell.

The reason you might want to combine Johns Creek and Milton is they could share alot of administrative expenses and had more economies of scale on police dept spending etc... It would overall be cheaper to manage a city of 100,000 than two of 70k and 30k.


Small aside... I realize many in Sandy Springs are trying to position themselves to become part of Milton. However, historically they aren't Milton and the infrastructure connection between them and the original Milton is weak and entirely dependent on the state via (GA 400 and Roswell Rd. Whereas local infrastructure to connect them to central Fulton is in place.

Small aside #2: The original Milton County was small and only existed for 74 years and was originally carved from parts of Cobb, Cherokee, and Forsyth Counties.

Small aside #3: When Milton joined Fulton, this also included Roswell (which was in Cobb), small parts of Gwinnett and Cherokee that were never apart of the original Milton, but also become part of Fulton to make the area better connected within itself.
For anyone interested.. This link (Georgia County Maps and Atlases) contains links to historical county maps of GA at the bottom of the page. The changes over time are very interesting.
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