Clarification needed on Suwanee & Duluth

[mrpanda]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

1. Georgia law requires a city who wants to expand into another county to get permission from that county's largest city. Since Cumming is the only city, they would have to get permission from them.

2. Of course its possible, because its not part of any city. Neither was Johns Creek--it was just unincorporated Fulton County. Those people had Alpahretta/Duluth/Suwanee addresses, but they were not actually within the city boundaries of any of them.

Thanks BringBackCobain...

It may be a wild guess, but I have a feeling that a new city will be incorporated between JC and Cumming sometime in the future. Thanks for all the info.. I enjoyed it.

[cwkimbro]

TO help answer the original questions just look at this map

Gwinnett County - Georgia Zip Code Boundary Map (GA)

Zip codes in and around Gwinnett County. (30024 is Suwanee, 30097 and 30097 are Duluth)

They are mainly in Gwinnett County where the city is, but part of the Duluth zip code is in North Fulton and part of the Suwanee zip code is in Forsyth County (and a teensy bit in N. FUlton).

As far as the rest of the discussion goes... People (especially those new to the area) are getting too hung up on city and County boundaries. We have tons of unincorporated areas and city limits are often fairly small. North Fulton County is a new and reception exception to this.

The zip code boundaries are made based on postal routes and postal centers.. that is all. The southern tip of Forsyth County is closer to the city of Suwannee where there is a post office that has the handling capacity/road access to efficiently provide service in that area.


Also, it is possible for a city to be in two counties. A few local examples would be Loganville (Gwinnett/Walton Counties), Atlanta (Fulton/Dekalb), Auburn (Gwinnett/Barrow), Braselton (Gwinnett/Jackson/Hall/Barrow counties), Buford (Gwinnett/Hall), Rest Haven (Gwinnett/Hall).

There are also some "census designated places" that are often referred to like it was a city (although officially it isn't and never was). The best example I can think of is Tucker. There is central town area and everything, but it isn't a city. There is also Mountain Park, Centerville, and Peachtree Corners in unincorporated Gwinnett. Many of these are made from old railroad or mail stops.

Also, the details of an annexation process can get complex as there are different legal paths to annexations with different definitions/processes, but a city does not need permission from any other city to annex unincorporated land (even in a neighboring county). They do, regardless of process or county boundaries, have to contact the county government(s) of the land to be annexed and give them a chance to object and work out and resolve issues, since the county built and maintains that infrastructure already.

Over the years there have been some narrowly created laws to protect some of the larger suburban/urban counties from some annexations by giving them more power to object to them.

Generally speaking undeveloped land is easier to annex. It is frequently used for a developer to appeal for better zoning regulations. They get better zoning from a city and in return the city gets more tax returns. The battles often occur over already developed property, like Technology Park in Peachtree Corners and the City of Norcross. One concern that never became a problem was Gwinnett County invested alot of money in infrastructure to make way for the Mall of Georgia. At the time there was a concern Buford might someday try to annex the land, but after Gwinnett County spent the money to build the local infrastructure. It is often concerns over existing infrastructure/maintenance that counties can mount pretty solid objections to annexation.

[OhioNative]

Originally Posted by mrpanda

Thanks BringBackCobain...

It may be a wild guess, but I have a feeling that a new city will be incorporated between JC and Cumming sometime in the future. Thanks for all the info.. I enjoyed it.

Really the driving force behind incorporation has been greater local control and dissatisfaction with the way the county runs things. The size of Fulton, both land area and population made it difficult to govern. There is also a greater socioeconomic disparity in Fulton that is unique and led to resentment of tax money flowing from north to south. Otherwise most people don't see the need to incorporate, as it generally means paying higher city taxes. That's why I am happy living in unincorporated suwanee. I get to take advantage of one of the top ten places to live in the US while not having to pay the city taxes.

[ericsonga]

Originally Posted by mrpanda

Then why have they started to make all the addresses as "Suwanee" right north of McGinnis Ferry in Forsyth County? At the same time, I feel that there is 0.00% chance that they will change the city address in the future for the Forsyth County with Suwanee addresses. That is why i am confused.

I've lived in Southern California and now currently reside in Chicago. Nowhere in Cook County or Orange County will you find a school city address that is outside of the city limits use that city address. Peachtree Ridge HS sits outside of the Suwanee City limits, yet has a "Suwanee" address. Can you please explain this?

This is because the schools are ran by Gwinnett County. Because of that, it doesn't matter what the address is, or what city the address of the school is. Also, just because an area has a designated 'Duluth' or 'Suwanee' address doesn't mean it lies within the city limits. A large portion of North Fulton had a Duluth address for many decades until the area was incorporated into Johns Creek.

Also, zip codes and address designations are chosen by the federal postal system. I highly doubt they will be changing anything any time soon. It is highly unlikely the government will be changing these designations anytime soon. I work in publishing, and am very well versed in circulation and postal regulations. It is very expensive and very difficult to change any of those designations.

[OhioNative]

Another thing that confuses people who move here from the north is that schools are usually run by the counties rather than cities, exceptions being Atlanta and Buford among a few others.

[mrpanda]

From everything i read on this thread, are these three options real possibilities that could happen in the future for S. Forsyth?

1) S. Forsyth that sits north of McGinnis Ferry and south of Cumming can incorporate into a new city similar to that of JC or Milton.

2) The incorporated city of Suwanee could get permission from Cumming/S. Forsyth to expand its city limits to South Forsyth from Gwinnett. I think this is feasible as Duluth was also sitting in both Fulton and Gwinnett county, before JC was incorporated to take all of Duluth / Fulton.

3) The unincorporated Suwanee will continue to remain unincorporated.

Which of these three scenarios are most likely to happen?

[flyonpa]

3.

I dont see Suwanee moving into Forsyth, Also there has been no intrest in Non/Cumming forsyth to form any cities. Cumming did Anex a few Sq miles to put in the pool, National Guard & DMV center. But that was done with the county gov ok. Also NO people lived there, was all Open land.

[OhioNative]

I know a number of the people who run Suwanee, and they have no interest in growing the city limits. It makes no sense to annex new residents where there is not a significant business base. It ends up costing them money. I also don't know of any drive to create what would be a bedroom community out of Forsyth 30024.

[OhioNative]

Also, no part of Duluth was in Fulton county. The part of 30097 in Fulton was unincorporated. The only reason that johns creek was created was to take back local control from Atlanta and keep tax dollars from going to south Fulton.

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by Tresninas

Of course I know it's not a city.

But "South Forsyth" is the location-identifier that most people use when asked where they live. None of my friends who live with a Suwanee mailing address in South Forsyth tell people they live in Suwanee. They say "South Forsyth" simply because it's a more accurate identifier geographically. It lets people know they live west of the river. It conveys more accurately what their public schools are. Suwanee residents in South Forsyth do not go to the grocery store in the city of Suwanee. Their day to day is in South Forsyth.

Right. This is true in many other parts of the metro area as well. My mailing address says Roswell but I don't live in the City of Roswell and I'm even in a different county. So I always tell people I live in East Cobb. It's more accurate and less confusing, overall.

Originally Posted by mrpanda

From everything i read on this thread, are these three options real possibilities that could happen in the future for S. Forsyth?

1) S. Forsyth that sits north of McGinnis Ferry and south of Cumming can incorporate into a new city similar to that of JC or Milton.

2) The incorporated city of Suwanee could get permission from Cumming/S. Forsyth to expand its city limits to South Forsyth from Gwinnett. I think this is feasible as Duluth was also sitting in both Fulton and Gwinnett county, before JC was incorporated to take all of Duluth / Fulton.

3) The unincorporated Suwanee will continue to remain unincorporated.

Which of these three scenarios are most likely to happen?

You're still not understanding the Georgia approach, which is different from the all-incorporated situation in many places up north. #3 is probably the most likely. #2 is not going to happen.