Atlanta Transit Expansion Comes Closer as Region Prepares for Tax Referendum (Dallas: taxes, restaurant)

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Clearly a good use of $39 million.

The station only averages about 310 boardings a day.

Trying to quantify how monumentally inefficient and stupid this would be is difficult, but here we go.

At $10 per boarding, it would take almost 35 years to pay back the $39 million (not including interest).

Over ten years, we are saying that this station would need to provide about $35 worth of benefit to each rider to break even (again, not including interest).

Daily boardings might be higher if the station was situated better and in a more convenient location...and if the quality of rail transit was improved (i.e. high-speed). I would bet that if Hartsfield was housed in such a subpar building at an inconvenient/inaccessible location with old/outdated equipment and techology we would see far less air travel in Atlanta.

[testa50]

I'd be shocked if locating the station in a slightly different spot increases boardings measurably. Amtrak service schedules are so inconvenient, and the costs are so prohibitively high (we're talking like $400-$500 one way for two people in a sleeper to DC or NOLA), I don't think any train location would attract major use unless we can overhaul the entire system from the ground up. And the convenience of this location compared to the other seems marginal at best.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by testa50

I'd be shocked if locating the station in a slightly different spot increases boardings measurably. Amtrak service schedules are so inconvenient, and the costs are so prohibitively high (we're talking like $400-$500 one way for two people in a sleeper to DC or NOLA), I don't think any train location would attract major use unless we can overhaul the entire system from the ground up. And the convenience of this location compared to the other seems marginal at best.

It's not just the actual location, but conveniences like parking, food sales, station comfort and entertainment, etc. I wasn't saying that location alone would make a remarkable difference in boarding numbers, but location combined with the other things I mentioned might.

[NYbyWAYofGA]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

Cool. When will construction start?

According to the Georgia Transit Connector web site, "construction on the east-west route is estimated to begin in late 2011 and continue through 2012 with service beginning in the middle of 2013; it will be built in stages, targeting one block every 2 to 3 weeks."

Construction & Operations | Atlanta Streetcar

Anyone else wonder how well the "honor" system will be implemented, monitored and followed...?

[testa50]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

It's not just the actual location, but conveniences like parking, food sales, station comfort and entertainment, etc. I wasn't saying that location alone would make a remarkable difference in boarding numbers, but location combined with the other things I mentioned might.

Certainly. But in that case, the free-marketeer in me wonders why they don't simply negotiate a parking agreement with the shopping center across the street for some amount of cost, spend the balance of a million on flat panel TVs and other station upgrades, and pocket the other $38 million.

You'd be a solid chunk of the way to being able to build a special streetcar line to Arts Center Station with that kind of coin left over.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

A friend of mine (a Traffic Planner) went to a meeting about the streetcar on Friday and provided some interesting details that can be found on this link.

Construction & Operations | Atlanta Streetcar

The Streetcar schedule is as follows:

Mon-Fri: 5:00 am – 11:00 pm
Saturday: 8:30 am – 11:00 pm
Sunday: 9:00 am – 10:30 pm

Also, the streetcar will operate on the honor system via the Breeze Card and have a 15 minute wait time. As mentioned before, expect the downtown streetcar to be running by the end of 2012 or early 2013.

Honor system? Like, they'll just trust that riders (1) have a Breeze Card, and (2) if they do will swipe it?

[testa50]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Honor system? Like, they'll just trust that riders (1) have a Breeze Card, and (2) if they do will swipe it?

Maybe they mean "honors system" like the Museum of Natural History in NYC means "honors system".

You go there and the person says "That'll be a $68 suggested donation, please," and you frown and pay it. Something can be non-compulsory, but you can socially pressure a heftly chunk of people into paying regardless. Making something non-compulsory makes monitoring compliance a lot cheaper (you don't) and speeds up the rate at which you can offer the service.

[BobKovacs]

Unfortunately, I'm thinking these referendums couldn't come at a worse time. With all the budget cuts at the federal, state, county and city levels, and talk of property tax increases to start making up the shortfalls, the chances of getting large-scale support for a tax earmarked for transportation aren't as good as some folks might think they are.

[AnsleyPark]

Bob - I have to agree with you. I know plenty of people in the core counties that will not vote for an additional tax regardless of its intended use. I hope you and I are wrong and that it passes; but, I believe it is going to be an uphill battle that local leaders should not, for even a moment, take for granted.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Clearly a good use of $39 million.

The station only averages about 310 boardings a day.

Trying to quantify how monumentally inefficient and stupid this would be is difficult, but here we go.

Well that's not a fair way to look at it.

The Amtrak station currently at Brookwood only serves one route (The Crescent) that has exactly four stops a day on a non-high speed line. The two stops in the morning eventually end up in New Orleans 12 hours later, and the two stops in the evening eventually end up in DC 14 hours later and in NYC 18 hours after departing Atlanta.

Is there are question as to why there are only 310 boardings a day? Especially considering how much more time efficient flying is?

The new station would not be built to maintain the status quo. It is being put in place with hopes of longer term plans of high speed rail and regional non-high speed rail serving more locations. The price tag might seem high now, but consider how much it will be 10 or 20 years down the road if we don't prepare appropriately now or, even worse, just watch as other cities in the region pass us by.