Carlos Santanta embarrasses himself at yesterdays Braves game. (violations, parties)

[northwinds]

Originally Posted by huddledmasses

Waiting, enlighten us please. You being right doesn't really matter as this is just yet another red herring while you ignore serious questions like why don't you want the Mexicans working in this country. I mean, there are no white gangs amirite? rofl The fact you keep insulting others while being consistently wrong is mildly entertaining I must say.

What exactly do you want me to enlighten you on now..I do have a job and a family.....educating you is a little low on my priority list....

[huddledmasses]

Originally Posted by northwinds

What exactly do you want me to enlighten you on now..I do have a job and a family.....educating you is a little low on my priority list....

Explain how this is wrong like you originally claimed.

Overstaying a visa or being within the country illegally is not a criminal offense but a civil offense.

[northwinds]

Originally Posted by huddledmasses

Explain how this is wrong like you originally claimed.

Please tell me that you are not like 12 years old....I feel like I'm talking to my 11 year old daughter....can you try to keep a train of thought...oh, never mind, its past your bedtime..

[huddledmasses]

Originally Posted by northwinds

Please tell me that you are not like 12 years old....I feel like I'm talking to my 11 year old daughter....can you try to keep a train of thought...oh, never mind, its past your bedtime..

Well your sharp knowledge of the law can't seem to differentiate between an overstayed visa and someone in the act of sneaking in. I was just trying to clarify but you would rather call names.

[northwinds]

Huddleass wrote: "Well your sharp knowledge of the law can't seem to differentiate between an overstayed visa and someone in the act of sneaking in. I was just trying to clarify but you would rather call names." Today 11:00 PM

No idiot, I was the only one that got that distinction and articulated it a long time ago (see my post below with empahsis).....while you were still maintaining that entering the U.S. illegally was a "civil" problem. I'll give you credit for admitting how wrong you were....but don't try and muddy the waters now...it makes you look like a hopeless fool.....

Originally Posted by northwinds

Please review my post to Huddleass above. Entering this country illegally is a federal crime.

[BringBackCobain]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

Interesting. Of course, it might be best to let waronxmas or other pro-immigration folks speak for themselves on this matter. I certainly didn't interpret his or others' posts in this particular thread as anti-American-nationalism in intent.

Isn't it possible to advocate for immigration AND assimilation/integration into American culture? It's not necessarily an either/or proposition, where immigration is on one side and "America" is on the other.

It depends on where the immigrants are from, how many there are, the circumstances of their entry, and what happens when they get there. Worst-case scenario: Europe. The leftists in Europe have implemented mass immigration from the culture most inapposite to western culture on this planet: Islamic. Once they are in Europe, they are put on welfare.

However, the worst possible decision is to give amnesty to illegal immigrants. They will have no respect for the laws of the country or the country itself, but that's the point, isn't it?

(This is where the Marx/Gramsci obsession with dialectic sort of seems too easy of an explanation, IMO. Rather it being a matter of us vs. them, it's more like us + them = something new and different, that's both American and not completely identical to what previous generations have called "American." You'd probably hate Homi Bhabha, but he makes good points about the utility in thinking less in terms of binaries and more in terms of hybridity when it comes to culture.)

But where does it end? Does the pendulum keep swinging the same direction? How much more can our culture change before it becomes so relative that it has no substance? I wouldn't really consider that a hybrid.

I'm someone who believes we should have significant but *targeted* immigration policies. I don't believe we should have completely open borders. (I've seen almost that in the Netherlands, and it was horrifying.) But I also think it's stupid to waste money building border fences and to waste emotional energy ginning up paranoia about Mexicans creeping into "our" territory. Set up a guest worker program and path to citizenship for current immigrants. Start enforcing current law in terms of fining employers for hiring those without citizenship or proper visa paperwork. Put taxpayer money behind ESL programs instead of just complaining about people's lack of English speaking skills. (At the same time, Americans need to learn a language other than English at a much earlier age as well. But that's for another debate.) Compel new immigrants to settle in cities that NEED working populations, like Detroit.

I don't see why such efforts have to be seen as communistic in intent or threatening to the cultural notion of "American" identity.

I agree. But I don't support immigration from anywhere in the world, and I think the religion of the sending country needs to be considered. Also, I don't think one group should dominate, because it prevents assimilation. Would it really be that surprising if California tried to secede and join Mexico? That is a major problem.

P.S. I'd also quibble with your assumption that "Western values," at least as far as America is concerned, don't include a notion of openness to immigration. You seem to suggest that open immigration is a leftist attempt to threaten such Western values. But it seems reasonably clear that immigration is a SIGNIFICANT part of the historical construction of American values and identity. And that isn't just a leftist narrative; that's a historical fact. Now, the left may overstate the "nation of immigrants" meme, but you can't pretend like immigration hasn't formed a significant part of American values historically.

Of course, but you have to consider who those immgrants were. It was largely intra-western immigration, not from third-world countries. In addition, those immigrants were emigrating to a country with a strong culture that demanded assimilation, not a weak and diluted culture (due to "multiculturalism") that discourages assimilation.

[huddledmasses]

Originally Posted by northwinds

Huddleass wrote: "Well your sharp knowledge of the law can't seem to differentiate between an overstayed visa and someone in the act of sneaking in. I was just trying to clarify but you would rather call names." Today 11:00 PM

No idiot, I was the only one that got that distinction and articulated it a long time ago (see my post below with empahsis).....while you were still maintaining that entering the U.S. illegally was a "civil" problem. I'll give you credit for admitting how wrong you were....but don't try and muddy the waters now...it makes you look like a hopeless fool.....

mhmmm I quoted the part where you tell Testa he was wrong, please show us where exactly you made the distinction and admitted he was right. Other than this last post i've quoted of course.

[testa50]

I also posted this, just to make things crystal clear:

Originally Posted by testa50

To be clear, my understanding is that entering the country illegally is a criminal offense, and hanging out here without authorization is a civil offense.

I find it humorous that someone was ranting and raving that I'm incorrect after this. My first statement obviously referred to hanging out without a visa, not crossing the border illegally. I even said illegal immigrants aren't "necessarily" criminals to make sure everything was properly qualified.

[brent6969]

I use to love Santana, but he is old and crotchety now, and still lives in the 60's.

[muxBuppie]

This thread proves that Neo Cons are just as useless as liberals. No one wants to the address the underlining long term issue ( the welfare state, tax structure, business regulations that encourage hiring illegals and outsourcing, etc) but instead focus on short term symtoms (Mexicans, business thatched them) solving that just pander to political boondogle. Both of your parties and ideologies suck. Get past your stupid xenophobia and racism by the right and silly "let em all end, there is no issue" of the left and address the real issues.


Think about why it hurts us for them to come over and fix that issue. Then do it without killing jobs with stupid ideas like " punish the guys who hire them". Then doing it without being racist pricks .Think America.

Ron Paul 012.