DOT Returns Revised Transportation Wish List to Atlanta Region (Roswell: quality of life, living)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Excellent article from the perspective of a Cobb resident and county Commissioner. I was originally going to support the TSPLOST, but given how all of the money supposedly allocated to Cobb has been put into the light rail that provides less than a mile of right of way within Cobb while removing other projects within the county, I plan to vote no.

The Marietta Daily Journal - Around Town Ott says we will pay TSPLOST but get nothing for it

APPROXIMATELY 85 PERCENT of Cobb's $1 billion in receipts from the TSPOST would go to the rail line, only a sliver of which would be in Cobb, as noted above by Ott, and which if approved could take a decade or more to build.

So which Cobb projects fell by the wayside at the last minute to make way for rail? They included:

* $167 million to widen Windy Hill Road from Austell Road to Cobb Parkway.

* $120 million for interchange improvements at I-75/Windy Hill.

* $110 million for "grade separation" (i.e. overpass or underpass) at the Cobb Parkway/Windy Hill intersection.

* $41.6 million for intersection improvements along I-75/Chastain Road/Frey Road in Kennesaw.

* $34.4 million to widen Cobb Parkway from Windy Ridge Parkway to North Marietta Parkway.

* $27.5 million to widen Cobb Parkway from Paces Mill Road north to Akers Mill Road.

* $13.6 million for medians and sidewalks along South Marietta Parkway from Cobb Parkway to Manget Street.

There's little doubt that the $514.1 million in projects listed above could have a much greater and more immediate impact on congestion relief than the rail line.

Attitudes such as these are starting to worry me that there's a real chance this referendum won't pass. I mean seriously, Neil, what the hell is this?? You and some special interest groups (not necessarily connected) are planning to torpedo the entire referendum because your share of the pie wasn't big enough? Come on, man, that's just selfish. EVERYONE can benefit from this, even those who never set foot on a train their entire lives.

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Eh...the Beltline is nice from an urban planning point of view, but not needed. A Cobb rail route would address congestion on I-75. The Beltline does not have importance.

You do know that the referendum would only cover the phase of the Cobb rail line that gets the line from Midtown up to Cumberland, right? And that's typically a much less-congested section of 75 than it is north of the Cloverleaf, right?

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by bu2

I think the Beltline is a great idea. However for a lot of people light rail and the Beltline are one and the same. Its light rail in the Beltline that I think is a bad idea.

But what should it be, then? Heavy rail? You realize how much harder that's going to be to put in, both physically and politically?

There is one physical advantage that light rail does have over heavy rail: It can fit into much tighter spaces without having to go underground. Look at Portland and Denver, whose light rail lines essentially turn into streetcars when they get downtown. Talk about a much less expensive solution than taking out entire streets to put in heavy rail, or more likely, tunneling underground.

In a day an age where the loud minority throws a fit if there's even the possibility of spending too much money on public services or investments, it's very likely to be political suicide to vote for a project that could have been done for much less money, even if the effectiveness of the results is reduced somewhat.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

You do know that the referendum would only cover the phase of the Cobb rail line that gets the line from Midtown up to Cumberland, right? And that's typically a much less-congested section of 75 than it is north of the Cloverleaf, right?

Right and Right.

But if it allows for a park-n-ride from Cumberland to the heart of Atlanta, that still would help to deal with some of the congestion.. Presumably, a Phase two later on would further extend it into Cobb.

Even the present MARTA line was not built all at once.

[StAubin]

Originally Posted by architect77

I lived on Renaissance Pkwy in 4th Ward, and I wouldn't accept a free condo anywhere south of Ponce if someone offered it to me. It sucks, gunshots frequently heard, shady characters constantly asking for money on all streets. Panhandlers inside Walgreens and Publix necessitating permanent police presence outside.

After moving 1 block north of Ponce it's like a different city: clean, safe, i love it.

Rail on the Beltline is a waste because affluent Va. Highlands residents aren't going to be travelling to the west end or the Garnett marta station to walk around and go antiquing. Every neighborhood along the Beltline is vastly different from one another. I don't see a common thread or activity shared by each's residents.

So just because wealthy va/hi residents wont use it means we cant build it? what about the west side where car ownership is low and people rely on transit, should they not get better options. Everything does not revolve around the virginia/ highlands you know.

And just because you don't like it south of ponce does not mean others do. I happen to like it.

[brownhornet]

Why on earth do Windy Hill or Cobb Parkway need widening? That wont do anything to help traffic congestion whatsoever.... especially widening from Austell Rd to Cobb Pkwy. There's nowhere near enough traffic there in the morning or evening to justify it needing widening and I drive that route pretty much everyday. Hell honestly Spring probably deserves widening more than Windy Hill does.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

But what should it be, then? Heavy rail? You realize how much harder that's going to be to put in, both physically and politically?

There is one physical advantage that light rail does have over heavy rail: It can fit into much tighter spaces without having to go underground. Look at Portland and Denver, whose light rail lines essentially turn into streetcars when they get downtown. Talk about a much less expensive solution than taking out entire streets to put in heavy rail, or more likely, tunneling underground.

In a day an age where the loud minority throws a fit if there's even the possibility of spending too much money on public services or investments, it's very likely to be political suicide to vote for a project that could have been done for much less money, even if the effectiveness of the results is reduced somewhat.

I don't think the Beltline is appropriate for any rail transit. Designated bus lanes maybe.

[Adric]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Why on earth do Windy Hill or Cobb Parkway need widening? That wont do anything to help traffic congestion whatsoever.... especially widening from Austell Rd to Cobb Pkwy. There's nowhere near enough traffic there in the morning or evening to justify it needing widening and I drive that route pretty much everyday. Hell honestly Spring probably deserves widening more than Windy Hill does.

Agreed. Cobb Pkwy is already huge as is.

Widening roads does not work after the road has reached a certain point. It provides a short relief on congestion that is quickly followed by traffic that was worse than before. Widening roads encourages more driving on said road so paradoxically, widening roads has the opposite long-term effect than what is intended.

How many years has Atlanta focused on frantically widening its roads? How much has it helped?

If it were up to me, I would use all of the money on road/highway/interstate repaving, traffic light timing and/or intersection improvements, adding turn lanes, and the rest would go to transit. The only major road project I would consider would be making GA316 a true interstate spur all the way to Athens but that would fall into jurisdictions not included on this referendum.

I'm starting to despair....

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by Adric

The only major road project I would consider would be making GA316 a true interstate spur all the way to Athens but that would fall into jurisdictions not included on this referendum.

Completely agree with this. Maybe even a small widening job from 4 to 6 lanes out to the Gwinnett/Barrow line, but 316 definitely needs to be limited access ALL the way to Athens. I never understood why there were overpasses built in Barrow and Oconee Counties before the intersections in Gwinnett. Oh well. That's GDOT for ya.

The rest of this money SHOULD be dedicated to transit, but we all know what the folks in places like Cherokee, Fayette and Henry County would say about that.

[rl256]

Originally Posted by WanderingImport

Completely agree with this. Maybe even a small widening job from 4 to 6 lanes out to the Gwinnett/Barrow line, but 316 definitely needs to be limited access ALL the way to Athens. I never understood why there were overpasses built in Barrow and Oconee Counties before the intersections in Gwinnett. Oh well. That's GDOT for ya.

The rest of this money SHOULD be dedicated to transit, but we all know what the folks in places like Cherokee, Fayette and Henry County would say about that.

From what I understand, Henry is fighting to get the line from ATL to griffin. It would have a stop in Hampton. The southside deserves to have some kind of respect for once.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Right and Right.

But if it allows for a park-n-ride from Cumberland to the heart of Atlanta, that still would help to deal with some of the congestion.. Presumably, a Phase two later on would further extend it into Cobb.

Even the present MARTA line was not built all at once.

Right.

Originally Posted by bu2

I don't think the Beltline is appropriate for any rail transit. Designated bus lanes maybe.

Ugh, no. Put those things parallel to freeways, not next to greenbelts. Light rail is quieter than BRT and can run on electricity.