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Old 08-28-2011, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 6,153,448 times
Reputation: 3573

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I'll guarantee you, once we get that Beltline built everybody in town is going to be going, "Well, I want one too!"

This. What the naysayers don't understand is that the Beltline has attracted international attention for something we're doing RIGHT.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:43 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,128,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
It should do both and often does.
GSU did a study years ago and determined that MARTA rail was in fact not fostering development around its stations. MARTA had to play a role to get that stuff going at Lindberg Station.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 6,153,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
GSU did a study years ago and determined that MARTA rail was in fact not fostering development around its stations. MARTA had to play a role to get that stuff going at Lindberg Station.
Because they're chronically underfunded and undersupported, dude. That's like blaming a child for not receiving enough food to eat.

Sheesh, I swear, I sometimes think that people WANT us to fail.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:27 AM
 
37,875 posts, read 41,890,328 times
Reputation: 27266
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
GSU did a study years ago and determined that MARTA rail was in fact not fostering development around its stations. MARTA had to play a role to get that stuff going at Lindberg Station.
Oh you don't need a study to show you that. I've said as much in the past on this forum. MARTA has done a horrible job at fostering TOD/TJD--in stark contrast to the Metro system in DC. However, I think Atlanta has learned from that and you'll see a very different paradigm in place with the Beltline and even the streetcar system.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:43 AM
 
3,707 posts, read 5,981,543 times
Reputation: 3036
It's funny that "zomg transit can never support itself" crowd would say that rail ought to follow development rather than foster it. There is exactly one for-profit urban rail transit system in the world--Hong Kong--and leveraging development opportunities alongside rail expansion is one of the biggest ways they make money.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:48 PM
 
906 posts, read 1,745,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Ok, so like what have they been doing all this time? Sitting at home until a light-rail line is built to their front door before they'll commute? Roads are what drive commuting patterns. Rail is at best an alternative and really should follow development, and not attempt to foster it.
I think the theory is that businesses open up along transit corridors, whether it's roads or light rail. So, those who are unemployed or are employed at a far away job might suddenly becomes candidates at new businesses that open up along new corridors.

This write-up seems to spell out the theory in more detail: http://www.drcog.org/documents/LRT%20and%20TOD.pdf

If the Beltline were *only* about promoting future development (and not serving existing needs), I would be more cautious about the project. But I think they're being smart in making it connect to *existing* centers of demand (Piedmont Park, Lindbergh, Inman Park, possibly Atlantic Station) in addition to going through neighborhoods that need impetus for further development.

So, I don't think it's fair to claim that the Beltline is only about fostering future development.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:08 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,128,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Because they're chronically underfunded and undersupported, dude. That's like blaming a child for not receiving enough food to eat.

Sheesh, I swear, I sometimes think that people WANT us to fail.
And I think people so desperately want this vision of public transportation to succeed that they ignore the facts.

How much funding do the rail lines need? Service is from 20 to 15 minute intervals and that still doesn't spur development around the stations.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:11 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,128,503 times
Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
It's funny that "zomg transit can never support itself" crowd would say that rail ought to follow development rather than foster it. There is exactly one for-profit urban rail transit system in the world--Hong Kong--and leveraging development opportunities alongside rail expansion is one of the biggest ways they make money.
Hong Kong is VERY dense. Perfect for public transportation.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:51 PM
 
32,019 posts, read 36,759,555 times
Reputation: 13290
Is this transportation referendum just a thinly disguised move to force Atlantans to move into dense, socialist-style transit oriented ghettos?

Some folks in Mayretta are worried about it.

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/...cialist-menace

"And aside from debating the merits of rail or particular road-widenings, there's the perception among more than a few educated citizens that the Atlanta Regional Commission and their friends the municipal associations, community improvement districts (CIDs) and chambers of commerce (that have sadly evolved from really great networking organizations into just more power-imbued lobbyists with major political influence) not only want our dollars, but are also trying to force certain lifestyle concepts down our throats. Urbanization, high density-no back yards (HDNBY) Agenda 21 'sustainable community' stuff that will transform our once quiet suburbs into, well, something very few of us seek."
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,743 posts, read 13,374,289 times
Reputation: 7178
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Is this transportation referendum just a thinly disguised move to force Atlantans to move into dense, socialist-style transit oriented ghettos?

Some folks in Mayretta are worried about it.

Suburbanites trading fear of MARTA for fear of smart-growth, socialist menace? | Atlanta News & Opinion Blog | Fresh Loaf | Creative Loafing Atlanta

"And aside from debating the merits of rail or particular road-widenings, there's the perception among more than a few educated citizens that the Atlanta Regional Commission and their friends the municipal associations, community improvement districts (CIDs) and chambers of commerce (that have sadly evolved from really great networking organizations into just more power-imbued lobbyists with major political influence) not only want our dollars, but are also trying to force certain lifestyle concepts down our throats. Urbanization, high density-no back yards (HDNBY) Agenda 21 'sustainable community' stuff that will transform our once quiet suburbs into, well, something very few of us seek."
I'm about to think it's just about time to pack my worn out bags and move to some island where I can sell cocunuts to tourists...
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