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“Everybody’s taught them how to add and subtract, but no one’s taught them how to work with their hands,” said Letalian, who owns Archer Restoration. “I could grow my business, but I can’t find young people who know construction or anything about a work ethic.”
When I was in Junior High in Pennsylvania (I prefer "Junior High" over "Middle School"), I had woodworking, metalworking, drafting, and electrical working (even made a crude electric motor) classes. Guess in PA there were still a number of factories so they wanted a workforce that understood the basics. In fact, in PA, I think you could leave High School in the 11th grade and go to a Technical School for your last two years. My family moved to Georgia and I entered high school and all that went away.
In Georgia, I guess the idea is everyone graduates from High School and you can then go to College or a Technical College. But there was a report that Technical College enrollment declined.
I recall when Walton High first opened it had a strong vocational program in areas like automobile repair and electronics. Guess they've gone fully College-Prep? In fact, the push at all schools seems to be to take the SAT and go to college. Hasn't helped our SAT average.
In Georgia, I guess the idea is everyone graduates from High School and you can then go to College or a Technical College.
Sadly, about 20% of our kids don't even make it through high school, and in some districts barely half are graduating.
You make a really good point about the need for more vocational and technical training. If book learning isn't your bag, then let's find something else you can do! We can't sustain ourselves with large numbers of young people coming into adulthood with no way to support themselves or their families. (Not to mention helping out the rest of us).
I commend Jay and Paul for their efforts but, unfortunately it will be short lived (short-lived on two fronts- one they can't afford to keep pumping money into something that has a small return on their investment. And two- I honestly believe that the standard they're trying to evoke is too high for the amount of effort being put forth). Today's society has pounded into every one's head that you'll have no future without a college education. How unfortunate that a lot of those college educated souls don't know that the mechanic that just fixed their BMW or Mercedes pulls down 6-figures a year.
We've also become a reactional society (I remember a conversation several years ago that I had with a fellow builder about how long the housing rush would last. We both knew it would come to an end at some point, and then what? Try to survive? Move on to the next career? Retire?). The point- when the next large wave of home buyers come, who's going to build them?
The Latino population was the backbone of the past building wave. I watched them "grow" within the construction industry. Most, when they first started on construction sites were general laborers, brick masons, roofers, and framers. When the bottom fell out there were Latinos doing electrical work, HVAC, and plumbing. Now, with the strict immigration laws being past their "future" here looks bleak. So, now we find ourselves with no one skilled enough to build a house, no one laborious enough to pick fruits and vegetables, and on, and on. I'm sure there will be some tax dollars being thrown at technical programs when the demand for food and housing outweighs the means- reactionary!
As for myself- I'm also a recipient of a tech school certification- it got me a job out of HS for a year- then went to college (had to pay for college somehow). Haven't really used any of those skills for almost 40yrs.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman
When I was in Junior High in Pennsylvania (I prefer "Junior High" over "Middle School"), I had woodworking, metalworking, drafting, and electrical working (even made a crude electric motor) classes. Guess in PA there were still a number of factories so they wanted a workforce that understood the basics. In fact, in PA, I think you could leave High School in the 11th grade and go to a Technical School for your last two years. My family moved to Georgia and I entered high school and all that went away.
That was also true in Minnesota. Woodworking, metalworking, drafting, printing and photography (including developing our own film), and home economics (sewing and cooking) were all required. I also remember taking typing class (on IBM Selectrics) in high school, but that may have been an elective course.
I think vocational training is something sorely lacking in many areas of Georgia unfortunately.
Over the decades, some educators pushed college too often for some of those who really would do better with a job skill where they can use their hands. College is not for everyone, hence, too many people drop out scholarship or not. Many are simply not prepared for college and should never have been admitted. Just note how many students take remedial classes for English and/or math at a junior college or a larger university. This should not be an issue at all. People should already be prepared for college, not taking high school remedial classes while enrolled at college. It is a waste of resources to allow this to go on, I believe.
I hate to say this, but it is true: some people associate hands-on job skills with some disdain (people lacking a 4 year college degree), which is truly unfortunate. Some blue-collar jobs pay quite well. There should be more general emphasis on vocational training from high school students to adult learners.
I agree. But I would argue that our country has been quite reactionary for more than a century.
Every aspect of life that is conducted in the U.S.A. is based on the narrow agendas and desires of a self-apppointed few. When this small select group who welds extreme influence have long since died off, the future generations are unfortunately left with the mess and the bill for clean-up.
I wish this annoying trait of our country could change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K'ledgeBldr
I commend Jay and Paul for their efforts but, unfortunately it will be short lived (short-lived on two fronts- one they can't afford to keep pumping money into something that has a small return on their investment. And two- I honestly believe that the standard they're trying to evoke is too high for the amount of effort being put forth). Today's society has pounded into every one's head that you'll have no future without a college education. How unfortunate that a lot of those college educated souls don't know that the mechanic that just fixed their BMW or Mercedes pulls down 6-figures a year.
We've also become a reactional society (I remember a conversation several years ago that I had with a fellow builder about how long the housing rush would last. We both knew it would come to an end at some point, and then what? Try to survive? Move on to the next career? Retire?). The point- when the next large wave of home buyers come, who's going to build them?
The Latino population was the backbone of the past building wave. I watched them "grow" within the construction industry. Most, when they first started on construction sites were general laborers, brick masons, roofers, and framers. When the bottom fell out there were Latinos doing electrical work, HVAC, and plumbing. Now, with the strict immigration laws being past their "future" here looks bleak. So, now we find ourselves with no one skilled enough to build a house, no one laborious enough to pick fruits and vegetables, and on, and on. I'm sure there will be some tax dollars being thrown at technical programs when the demand for food and housing outweighs the means- reactionary!
As for myself- I'm also a recipient of a tech school certification- it got me a job out of HS for a year- then went to college (had to pay for college somehow). Haven't really used any of those skills for almost 40yrs.
Though this is primarily about Georgia- Vocational/Technical schools are rather abundant in the Northeast and Mid-west (as noted by other posters); why? Because of unions. Unions were the unspoken paycheck for the schools- it's how they thrived.
Here in the Southeast there is little to no union representation. No monies for schools and no qualified trained individuals for members. I'm not advocating unions- it's just the way the wheel goes 'round.
Yeah, but even up north the vocation training is getting slimmed down. When I was in high school in NJ, they offered woodshop, drafting, metal shop, auto shop, etc., in pretty much every high school. Even in middle school, everyone had a 4-quarter rotation through woodshop, metal shop, power mechanics (small engine repair) and home economics. Even if you weren't preparing for a career in the trades, at least you left school knowing which end of a screwdriver to hold, and how to change the spark plug on your lawnmower.
Today, the schools might offer some kind of technology/CAD program, but the woodshops/metalshops are fading away. My mother was the chief clerk at one of the schools there, and called me one day asking if I wanted any of the equipment from the woodshop because they were getting rid of the program and converting the shop into a computer lab. If I'd had the room, I could have gotten probably $50k of great woodworking equipment for nothing. Stupid, stupid me.
The kids today come out of school with no fundamental understanding of how things work- they have to call someone to come over and hang a picture for them or to change a doorknob. I had a neighbor back in NJ who asked me if I wanted his "old" lawnmower because it had stopped working. It was a 2 year old Snapper mower (probably $400 new). I took it home, drove down to the autoparts store and bought a 99-cent spark plug, and it fired right up. I used that mower for 4-5 years, and during that time only had to spend probably $5 for spark plugs and oil.
Believe me, I'm an intellectual "book" type of person. But I think our schools should produce more well-rounded students and leave college and technical schools for specialties.
I think it was Zell Miller, when he was governor, who emphasized more class time for the core subjects. But I think that's a mistake and after all these years I don't think it has worked, including our experiment with "super babies" by giving mothers recordings of Mozart for the baby to listen to.
Education should be balanced for both the mind and body, and that includes teaching skills that involve working with your hands. I wonder if fears of injury and sexism (the lawsuits involved with both) might have deemphasized the physical activities and skills? When I was in school, the guys took shop classes and the girls took home economics. Is it the case now that they have to take both...or neither? And gym classes were likewise split.
The hard question is what should be taught given the limited amount of time?
The core courses should be
English (Grammar and Literature)
Math
Social Studies (World/American History, Geography, Civics)
Science
At some point, Economics should be required. We need to have a basic understanding of how business and the economy work. So it could be 9th grade Geography (I can't believe some kids can't find the US on a map), 10th World History, 11th American History, 12th Civics then Economics.
Health is another important class and somehow squeeze in electives like a foreign language.
But we should also work with our hands:
I had Art and Music classes but they were quite frankly garbage because they emphasized self-expression but nothing was taught of the skills. You had to take band to get a real music education. I took music appreciation classes in college that taught me piano and guitar playing basics.
Phys Ed. Probably should be daily with aerobics/weights 3 days a week and the other 2 playing (and learning) a sport.
Shop. Woodworking, metalworking, basic electricity, engine mechanics, and perhaps other basic skills.
Computer/Typing One of the best classes I took in high school was typing but only a semester is needed for typing, or tie it in with computer basics.
One semester of Driver's Ed. Actually, I learned a lot in Drivers Ed.
Maybe these other "electives" can be cycled in and labeled as "Life Skills". Shoot, even guys can use Home Economics but couch it with some other name.
In short, I think junior high/middle school and high school should impart basic life skills.
Last edited by MathmanMathman; 10-20-2011 at 02:22 PM..
Believe me, I'm an intellectual "book" type of person. But I think our schools should produce more well-rounded students and leave college and technical schools for specialties.
I think it was Zell Miller, when he was governor, who emphasized more class time for the core subjects. But I think that's a mistake and after all these years I don't think it has worked, including our experiment with "super babies" by giving mothers recordings of Mozart for the baby to listen to.
Education should be balanced for both the mind and body, and that includes teaches skills that involve working with your hands. I wonder if fears of injury and sexism (the lawsuits involved with both) might have deemphasized the physical activities and skills? When I was in school, the guys took shop classes and the girls took home economics. Is it the case now that they have to take both...or neither? And gym classes were likewise split.
The hard question is what should be taught given the limited amount of time?
The core courses should be
English (Grammar and Literature)
Math
Social Studies (World/American History, Geography, Civics)
Science
At some point, Economics should be required. We need to have a basic understanding of how business and the economy work. So it could be 9th grade Geography (I can't believe some kids can't find the US on a map), 10th World History, 11th American History, 12th Civics then Economics.
Health is another important class and somehow squeeze in electives like a foreign language.
But we should also work with our hands:
I had Art and Music classes but they were quite frankly garbage because they emphasized self-expression but nothing was taught of the skills. You had to take band to get a real music education. I took music appreciation classes in college that taught me piano and guitar playing basics.
Phys Ed. Probably should be daily with aerobics/weights 3 days a week and the other 2 playing (and learning) a sport.
Shop. Woodworking, metalworking, basic electricity, engine mechanics, and perhaps other basic skills.
Computer/Typing One of the best classes I took in high school was typing but only a semester is needed for typing, or tie it in with computer basics.
One semester of Driver's Ed. Actually, I learned a lot in Drivers Ed.
Maybe these other "electives" can be cycled in and labeled as "Life Skills". Shoot, even guys can use Home Economics but couch it with some other name.
In short, I think junior high/middle school and high school should impart basic life skills.
You're preaching to the choir.
Handwriting (cursive for you GenXer's and beyond) is no longer taught. It's pretty bad when your kid comes home from school and says the teacher wrote (handwriting) assignments on the board and can't READ it!
Keyboarding (typing for us old farts) is now taught. We're on the cusp of losing the spoken language! At this rate we'll be texting each other when facing one another.
Learning "life skills" is for parents today- not schools. But, it's pretty sad when your kid has no interest in simple home repair or DIY auto repair. They rather sit in front of a GD boobtube and play some dumbass video game with someone halfway around the world- real life skills there (unless being an assassin is considered a "profession").
Though I try to not force these things as time goes by, it is becoming more and more important to do just that.
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