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Bit of an overstatement teaser. But this story in the AJC about the online education movement might make the case for many more mergers of USG colleges.
I mean why teach calculus, American history, physics,... over and over? Just record the USG's best lecturers. More can be produced over time and critiqued if it is a good presentation for students to watch.
We might end up with just UGA and Tech and their branch campuses around the state. GSU might be UGA-Atlanta (again), SPSU will be GT-Marietta, KSU will be UGA-Kennesaw.
I think online colleges will serve a roll, if you think of them as online trade schools. If, however, you want the cross pollination of how ideas from your major affect other ideas, or people, you need proximity. Not just online, but also physical proximity. There is simply no substitution to stumbling on a conversation while studying and getting engaged with a new facet of an idea, or seeing applicability to other area.
Sure, you can have the best lecturer and get the information, but if you want to truly be educated, you have to see it applied, or at least discussed in other context. And no, I don't think an online message board discussion can be as substantive replacement for a face to face discussion on a topic. The level of self selection for paying attention to only the discussions that you think interest you is to high a barrier to overcome.
The bit of online education overtaking actual education is laughable. Everybody knows that online education is mostly ineffective. I believe the best way to teach is through communication. Class discussion and engagement is what makes a learning experience. I can't watch a lecture on my computer for long, so why should my students? I don't like it. I agree for some math courses, I like the practice-makes-perfect online systems that accompany math courses these days. Students would lose too much if they couldn't even be on campus. The social atmosphere is one thing, but also jobs, clubs, student organizations, internships, service-based learning projects and undergraduate research etc.
Online education is great, but I don't think it will replace classroom ed. We'll have teacherbots before that happens.
BUT in case of mergers...I think they're a bit overdue. We have too many schools in Georgia. 35 institutions? That's ridiculous. I would like to see some of these smaller schools merged. Macon State, South GA College, Middle GA Waycross College, GHSU, ASU, NGCSU and Gainesville State U(GSU..?) have been merged.
The Skidaway Institute of Oceanography, a standalone research facility was also given to UGA.
Next:
1. GPC or GSU should merge with Atlanta Metropolitan. Whichever school can more efficiently utilize the space. Atlanta Metropolitan College has an enrollment of 2,782. Since it's a 4-year state college, maybe it would be best to merge it with Georgia State.
2. ABAC(Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College) should be took over by UGA's Tifton campus. It makes perfect sense. The facilities can be used for agricultural, ecological and environmental research - an area I believe UGA is trying to capitalize on. The 3,250 students will not be very difficult to transition. Many of these students already transfer to UGA's agricultural campus in Tifton or Griffin.
3. East Georgia College and Southwestern State University can be merged. They are geographically close enough for it to workout for the region. SWSU in Americus and East GA College in Bainbridge. Alternatively, GPC could take over East GA College in an effort to break into south GA. East GA College is a 2 year school.
4. Fort Vally State needs to be merged with Macon State. This one is a no brainer. 3,896 students currently attend FVSU.
From 35 to 31 institutions.
But seriously..FVSU and Macon State. Why hasn't it happened? The schools are literally right next to each other?
I just think that we should seriously rethink how we offer courses. You might not like online education but we are increasing becoming a society of viewing stuff online be it videos or even text. And as this here is evidence of communicating on boards and there are other forms of online interaction. Socializing and discussing online is much more convenient and can bring more opinions. You are sounding a bit like the "I prefer books over ebooks!" type of person but the times "they are a changin'".
Myself, I prefer online lectures as I can stop and repeat something and I can view it on my schedule. Classes can meet but they can be for discussion and questions. I like the attitude in that article of "experimentation" with this style of teaching as I've seen attempts in the past with the idea of dictating a new way of teaching. Despite years of work, I don't think we have "teaching" down yet. It just seems silly to me to sit in class and have the prof write stuff on the board and I just copy what he has just written. Then the prof seems irritated that we aren't keeping up with the content because we are too busy copying. For "heavy" material, that's tough to do. It's much easier to keep up with the content in say a film class. I think it makes more sense to use class time for things that require interaction. If it's mostly lecture...put it online.
The class lecture is an old model that we are clinging to. We don't expect the prof to write the book so why should he do a lecture that perhaps is done better by someone gifted at it? I've watched some MIT online lectures and really, they are better than any lecturer at GT I've had. Like we do with textbooks, let someone else skilled at it do the lecture. The prof can then offer supplementary talks and entertain student questions.
As for a GSU and Atlanta Metropolitan merger, really, I think you just have to finish high school to get into AMC. AMC is way too low academically. Only a merger with GPC makes sense as it is also a 4-year school with similar academics.
HBCUs like Fort Valley, Albany State, and Savannah State should be merged with their respective neighboring schools but naturally it is a political issue.
And Fort Valley and Macon State are towns apart, about 25 miles.
Last edited by MathmanMathman; 12-28-2012 at 03:09 PM..
I think online colleges will serve a roll, if you think of them as online trade schools. If, however, you want the cross pollination of how ideas from your major affect other ideas, or people, you need proximity. Not just online, but also physical proximity. There is simply no substitution to stumbling on a conversation while studying and getting engaged with a new facet of an idea, or seeing applicability to other area.
I think you stumble upon more new stuff online than you could ever do wandering around a campus. Online can be the introductory and even more in depth study with interaction, online or in person, as a follow up.
Quote:
Sure, you can have the best lecturer and get the information, but if you want to truly be educated, you have to see it applied, or at least discussed in other context. And no, I don't think an online message board discussion can be as substantive replacement for a face to face discussion on a topic. The level of self selection for paying attention to only the discussions that you think interest you is to high a barrier to overcome.
We'll see as we are in a new era. My concern is not so much interaction but self in depth learning. We are content with having a mass knowledge bank, each contributing a bit of information, without the self becoming an expert in a field. We have to nurture expertise rather than everyone being generalists. Otherwise, we might have to rely on a form of swarm intelligence and how then can we add new knowledge?
Last edited by MathmanMathman; 12-28-2012 at 03:02 PM..
I mean why teach calculus, American history, physics,... over and over? Just record the USG's best lecturers. More can be produced over time and critiqued if it is a good presentation for students to watch.
I like it. This opens up the courses to a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't have a chance to take them.
For example, a lot of y'all are probably wondering how I got so durn smart, what with dropping out of high school and going to community colleges and all. Well, part of the answer is that I took some very good online courses. No, there wasn't ivy growing on the walls and we didn't gather in the quad to ponder the meaning of the life. And no, we didn't run up $400,000 in debt and sit around complaining that nobody would give us big jobs. We simply got straight into the meat of what you needed to know and then moved on to being productive citizens.
Frankly, with the rest of the world eating our lunch, I'm not sure we have the luxury of sending every Tom, Dick and Mary off to 4 or 5 (or 10) years of collegiate bliss.
Traditional higher education is becoming such a scam(seriously, I don't particularly need a state-of-the-art athletic center with Olympic sized swimming pool or much less an athletic program) that I think online education has a huge demand.
Claiming that the average college classroom experience is equivalent to an intense Socratic exercise in learning is hysterical. Outside of a few rigorous institutions, college is pretty much a 4 year reprise of elementary school. Most students aren't there for the love of learning. A large percentage are there because their parents will only support them if they stay enrolled or some similar situation.
At least with online institutions the vast majority of students are nontraditional and are motivated by incentives other than frat parties and psuedo-political rallies. They enroll because they want to further their careers or for the love of learning. And with modern teleconferencing and data sharing technologies I'd say the experience of watching a lecture on a laptop is probably better than following it from the back of a huge auditorium. And class discussions aren't limited to only the time spent in the classroom.
Of course there are some fields that require something like lab work or the equivalent in addition to online work, but I'd say the majority of liberal arts degrees and some technical degrees can be delivered just as adequately online as in a brick and mortar university.
And I'm sure overpaid and under worked college professors are gonna scream their heads off about how you can never replace the "classroom experience..."
Online courses aren't just replacing the classroom. I know some current college students who, once they register for classes, look to see if the course is available online too. They like Coursera. And, the boys I know (my son is one), have been using their break to "pre-take" the classes. That enables them to remain in the honors program while taking 20 credits at a time. They begin the next semester with a pretty good understanding of the material, and it's free.
I think it's pretty terrific when used to a student's advantage.
The bit of online education overtaking actual education is laughable. Everybody knows that online education is mostly ineffective. I believe the best way to teach is through communication. Class discussion and engagement is what makes a learning experience. I can't watch a lecture on my computer for long, so why should my students? I don't like it. I agree for some math courses, I like the practice-makes-perfect online systems that accompany math courses these days. Students would lose too much if they couldn't even be on campus. The social atmosphere is one thing, but also jobs, clubs, student organizations, internships, service-based learning projects and undergraduate research etc.
Online education is great, but I don't think it will replace classroom ed. We'll have teacherbots before that happens.
BUT in case of mergers...I think they're a bit overdue. We have too many schools in Georgia. 35 institutions? That's ridiculous. I would like to see some of these smaller schools merged. Macon State, South GA College, Middle GA Waycross College, GHSU, ASU, NGCSU and Gainesville State U(GSU..?) have been merged.
The Skidaway Institute of Oceanography, a standalone research facility was also given to UGA.
Next:
1. GPC or GSU should merge with Atlanta Metropolitan. Whichever school can more efficiently utilize the space. Atlanta Metropolitan College has an enrollment of 2,782. Since it's a 4-year state college, maybe it would be best to merge it with Georgia State.
2. ABAC(Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College) should be took over by UGA's Tifton campus. It makes perfect sense. The facilities can be used for agricultural, ecological and environmental research - an area I believe UGA is trying to capitalize on. The 3,250 students will not be very difficult to transition. Many of these students already transfer to UGA's agricultural campus in Tifton or Griffin.
3. East Georgia College and Southwestern State University can be merged. They are geographically close enough for it to workout for the region. SWSU in Americus and East GA College in Bainbridge. Alternatively, GPC could take over East GA College in an effort to break into south GA. East GA College is a 2 year school.
4. Fort Vally State needs to be merged with Macon State. This one is a no brainer. 3,896 students currently attend FVSU.
From 35 to 31 institutions.
But seriously..FVSU and Macon State. Why hasn't it happened? The schools are literally right next to each other?
Simply put, a Macon State FVSU merger was discussed but it was dead immediately (as were the proposed Albany St/Darton and Armstrong Atlantic/ Savannah St mergers) Many FVSU alumni were not on board and the entire conversation took a racial turn that would never appease anyone...messing with the history of HBCUs will bring out the wrath of some...
So what happened instead is that Macon State and Middle Georgia College are merging as we "speak". They will become Middle Georgia State College in 2013 with an upgrade to Middle Georgia College and State University projected by 2015? with the addition of graduate programs.
FVSU will remain an HBCU not affiliated with any other school.
Nearly everyone is happy...
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