Group Wants Atlanta-Savannah Passenger Rail Line (Washington: apartment, to rent, living)

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So you would ride it regardless of the price?

Do you think enough people would ride a train to Savannah, regardless of price, to make the line close to self sufficient?

They probably will in the future when gasoline is $6+ per gallon.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by JPD

They probably will in the future when gasoline is $6+ per gallon.

How do you figure?

It is cheaper to ride Greyhound now than to drive and I don't think greyhound's ridership has seen a huge spike with people clamoring to get to Savannah with $4 a gallon gas.

I can still get to Savannah in my car for less than $50 under your scenario. I likely wouldn't be going alone, so it would be more like $25 per person (still FAR cheaper than any likely pricing scenario for the ATL-SAV train. What happens when the train drops me off in Savannah? Do they have a transit system that will get me from the train station downtown? A bus to the beach? If I have my car, I have flexibility to get around all of those areas and it saves me taxi/bus fares and my time.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

How do you figure?

It is cheaper to ride Greyhound now than to drive and I don't think greyhound's ridership has seen a huge spike with people clamoring to get to Savannah with $4 a gallon gas.

Greyhound runs on gasoline, no? Expect prices to increase as gas prices increase. Busses and trains are not the same. On a train you can walk around, perhaps have a cocktail. You can't do those things on a bus, at least not as easily/legally.

I can still get to Savannah in my car for less than $50 under your scenario. I likely wouldn't be going alone, so it would be more like $25 per person (still FAR cheaper than any likely pricing scenario for the ATL-SAV train. What happens when the train drops me off in Savannah? Do they have a transit system that will get me from the train station downtown? A bus to the beach? If I have my car, I have flexibility to get around all of those areas and it saves me taxi/bus fares and my time.

You're ignoring parking fees. Aso, some people don't WANT a car when they go on vacation, or a visit somewhere. Savannah is pretty compact. One could easily spend their time there without a car.

see bold.

[jpatlanta]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So you would ride it regardless of the price?

Do you think enough people would ride a train to Savannah, regardless of price, to make the line close to self sufficient?

I would ride the train even if it cost double driving. Its worth it to me to sit back relax and read a book.

And anyway who cares if its self sufficent. Not of of us want to live in a state based on the Walmart business model with a crappy ugly cheap infrastructure.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by jpatlanta

I would ride the train even if it cost double driving. Its worth it to me to sit back relax and read a book.

Again, do you really think there are enough people who would do the same thing to keep the line from hemorrhaging money?

Anyway you run the numbers, the line is going to require large subsidies to keep fares competitive and even then, it will likely lose money. What makes this a viable business plan for the State?

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by JPD

see bold.

So the benefit of a train is that you get to pay more (while having the taxpayers subsidize a large portion of your trip's expense), have a trip that is no faster than driving, enjoy decreased travel flexibility, so you can walk around and have a drink on a 4.5 hour trip?

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Again, do you really think there are enough people who would do the same thing to keep the line from hemorrhaging money?

Anyway you run the numbers, the line is going to require large subsidies to keep fares competitive and even then, it will likely lose money. What makes this a viable business plan for the State?

It's not a business.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So the benefit of a train is that you...can walk around and have a drink on a 4.5 hour trip?

In the context of why a train is preferable to a bus, yes, those are two of the many things that make train travel more attractive than bus travel. The parts of your post that I deleted were irrelevant to what I said.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by JPD

It's not a business.

So you are okay committing the state to a bottomless pit of taxpayer subsidies that should not be held to any sort of standard of fiscal responsibility? Where do you propose the money to subsidize the train should come from? What tax source should fund it and/or what are you not going to fund in order to build your riderless train to Savannah?

If it isn't a business what standard do you hold it to? I've made a proposal in this thread that I think makes perfect sense. If the train can operate at the same level of taxpayer support as our road infrastructure then build it. If it can't, don't.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So you are okay committing the state to a bottomless pit of taxpayer subsidies that should not be held to any sort of standard of fiscal responsibility? Where do you propose the money to subsidize the train should come from? What tax source should fund it and/or what are you not going to fund in order to build your riderless train to Savannah?

If it isn't a business what standard do you hold it to? I've made a proposal in this thread that I think makes perfect sense. If the train can operate at the same level of taxpayer support as our road infrastructure then build it. If it can't, don't.

I won't respond to hyperbole.

While rail travel will probably need to be pretty heavily subsidized in the short term, in the long term it is virtually guaranteed to become a more popular mode of transportation, which will make it more financially self-sustaining.

You should read this.
U.S. Transportation Subsidies