Group Wants Atlanta-Savannah Passenger Rail Line (Nashville, Greenville: buy, discount, install)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by flyonpa

Its time & money.
45-60min to NYC by train, 90-120 by car. Tolls/parking in NYC makes taking the train more time/$'s efficient.

The trains are ok, but off-peak, you don't see people taking the train, they drive. Especialy if the whole family is going, Its cheaper/easier/faster to drive

It's about having options. Obviously, for some trips and under some circumstances driving will be the best choice. Other times flying will be the best choice. And under other circumstances taking the train would be preferable. There are pros and cons to each, depending on the situation.

Here we've taken that third option of the table for the last 50 years. In Atlanta you either drive or fly.

And maybe people down here like having only two choices. Personally I'd enjoy being able to take a train sometimes but perhaps it just not in the cards for the Deep South.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by munna21977

thousands of people take train (NJ transit) between new jersey and new york. road exists there still people take trains. why all those people not driving there? can you enlighten us why? or you want to close down NJ transit also???

This is nothing like NJ-NYC, which has a very large population and population density. It's one of the very few that make sense. And New Jersey has the highest population density of any state. The situation in the NYC area doesn't translate to justifying an Atlanta-Savannah route.

[jpatlanta]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Again, they can fly to Savannah. There's no guarantee that a train fare will be cheap. And if they insist, they can take the train by a longer and more circuitous route.


You do know what the Eurotunnel is right? You can't drive between Paris and London. It used to be that you'd take the Ferry for the crossing, and you could bring your car. Eurotunnel will convey your vehicle and allow you to continue driving between Britain and France. The Eurostar connects by HSR London and Paris. I don't see an Atlanta-Savannah route as being on par with the Channel Tunnel in use and economic importance.

Yep taken it about 20 times sometimes with a car other times as a passenger on long weekends between cities. The facts are it massively increased total ridership between London and Paris. Plenty of people I know in London take short breaks who don't have cars and would never have flown. Likewise a train between Atlanta and Savannah will increase trips between the two cities. Of course it isn't on a par with Europe but the train would increase travel between the two cities and the principals are the same. A ton of people myself included cannot be bothered to go to Savannah for the weekend because driving is a PITA and so is flying but would take the train in a heartbeat.

As for the statement you make about roads spurring more development than trains. Really. Is that why I drive down I75 south and see nothing but Sonny Perdues 6 lane roads in rural GA littered with half empty strip malls and not a soul anywhere. Personally I would rather an acre of land close to the beltline or new Amtrack station than an acre near a road to no-where.

If/when the Beltline moves forward the growth will be insane near the line and land prices will massively increase.

It really is weird to me that we have people in GA arguing so much against rail yet its proven to work everywhere else in the world. Is GA different or is there something in the water down here that makes some people anti rail? Where were people like you when Sonny Perdue was spending billons on roads to no where to benefit his buddies in the concrete and construction industries?

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by JPD

Not everyone can.

There is Greyhound bus service that is very cheap. The market is already served by a very affordable non-car transit option.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by jpatlanta

Yep taken it about 20 times sometimes with a car other times as a passenger on long weekends between cities. The facts are it massively increased total ridership between London and Paris. Plenty of people I know in London take short breaks who don't have cars and would never have flown. Likewise a train between Atlanta and Savannah will increase trips between the two cities. Of course it isn't on a par with Europe but the train would increase travel between the two cities and the principals are the same. A ton of people myself included cannot be bothered to go to Savannah for the weekend because driving is a PITA and so is flying but would take the train in a heartbeat.

As for the statement you make about roads spurring more development than trains. Really. Is that why I drive down I75 south and see nothing but Sonny Perdues 6 lane roads in rural GA littered with half empty strip malls and not a soul anywhere. Personally I would rather an acre of land close to the beltline or new Amtrack station than an acre near a road to no-where.

If/when the Beltline moves forward the growth will be insane near the line and land prices will massively increase.

It really is weird to me that we have people in GA arguing so much against rail yet its proven to work everywhere else in the world. Is GA different or is there something in the water down here that makes some people anti rail? Where were people like you when Sonny Perdue was spending billons on roads to no where to benefit his buddies in the concrete and construction industries?

Yeah, pretty soon California is going to have Georgia beat once they build their HSR line and become the "American Japan". I think GA should strive to be ahead of the rest of the US, so it no longer gets laughed at for being behind.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Yeah, pretty soon California is going to have Georgia beat once they build their HSR line and become the "American Japan". I think GA should strive to be ahead of the rest of the US, so it no longer gets laughed at for being behind.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Yeah, pretty soon California is going to have Georgia beat once they build their HSR line and become the "American Japan". I think GA should strive to be ahead of the rest of the US, so it no longer gets laughed at for being behind.

I would note that Japan has been in the economic doldrums for quite some time. And we should be worried if California will beat us to HSR? So...what happens when they do?

I've heard estimates of $68 billion for the California train and that's for a scaled down LA-SF route. Georgia has been struggling to find the money to deepen Savannah's harbor and you want an Atlanta-Savannah HSR line? Seems like the only justification is to give Atlantans an alternative way to get to the beach.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by jpatlanta

Yep taken it about 20 times sometimes with a car other times as a passenger on long weekends between cities. The facts are it massively increased total ridership between London and Paris. Plenty of people I know in London take short breaks who don't have cars and would never have flown.

I can believe that as travel and trade between Britain and the continent was huge anyway. I'd imagine this would replace or greatly diminish the ferry system as the Chunnel saves a great deal of time. A bridge or underwater highway are impracticable.

Likewise a train between Atlanta and Savannah will increase trips between the two cities. Of course it isn't on a par with Europe but the train would increase travel between the two cities and the principals are the same. A ton of people myself included cannot be bothered to go to Savannah for the weekend because driving is a PITA and so is flying but would take the train in a heartbeat.

I don't see this plan as moving anymore cargo between Atlanta and Savannah which is the primary important use of the rail connection. So, for moving people, is it worth the tens of billions it would probably cost? Just so more Atlantans can spend a weekend in Savannah because they couldn't be bothered with the TSA?

As for the statement you make about roads spurring more development than trains. Really. Is that why I drive down I75 south and see nothing but Sonny Perdues 6 lane roads in rural GA littered with half empty strip malls and not a soul anywhere. Personally I would rather an acre of land close to the beltline or new Amtrack station than an acre near a road to no-where.

Regardless, roads do more for economic development than rail. Atlanta grew with the addition of roads, not new rail lines.

If/when the Beltline moves forward the growth will be insane near the line and land prices will massively increase.

Guess we'll see. But the MARTA rail lines have not promoted insane development along its lines. I mean, they're still trying to redevelop the land around the Doraville Station, the former GM plant site.

It really is weird to me that we have people in GA arguing so much against rail yet its proven to work everywhere else in the world. Is GA different or is there something in the water down here that makes some people anti rail? Where were people like you when Sonny Perdue was spending billons on roads to no where to benefit his buddies in the concrete and construction industries?

So far, we are still the leading economic power so maybe we're doing something right. Other countries might have their reasons. Europe and Japan for instance are very densely populated and can't accommodate everyone having a car. And I suspect it also has to do with wanting to hold on to an old industry and the jobs. There's a reason why European towns look so old architecturally.

[munna21977]

you are so much anti-rail. by the way do you think in USA even one passenger rail line makes sense to you??? you have to oppose rail no matter it makes sense or not.

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I can believe that as travel and trade between Britain and the continent was huge anyway. I'd imagine this would replace or greatly diminish the ferry system as the Chunnel saves a great deal of time. A bridge or underwater highway are impracticable.


I don't see this plan as moving anymore cargo between Atlanta and Savannah which is the primary important use of the rail connection. So, for moving people, is it worth the tens of billions it would probably cost? Just so more Atlantans can spend a weekend in Savannah because they couldn't be bothered with the TSA?


Regardless, roads do more for economic development than rail. Atlanta grew with the addition of roads, not new rail lines.


Guess we'll see. But the MARTA rail lines have not promoted insane development along its lines. I mean, they're still trying to redevelop the land around the Doraville Station, the former GM plant site.


So far, we are still the leading economic power so maybe we're doing something right. Other countries might have their reasons. Europe and Japan for instance are very densely populated and can't accommodate everyone having a car. And I suspect it also has to do with wanting to hold on to an old industry and the jobs. There's a reason why European towns look so old architecturally.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by munna21977

you are so much anti-rail. by the way do you think in USA even one passenger rail line makes sense to you??? you have to oppose rail no matter it makes sense or not.

Acela seems like it was a good idea. It stretches from Boston to New York to Philadelphia to Baltimore to DC.