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If there is some discrepancy in the amount of ridership along the route, maybe they need to select a new route. The network should serve high density corridors for it to be successful. It's confusing because, the goal of getting people out of their cars in Atlanta across the region should be the number one goal. This seems like an aesthetic project of parks and leisure which is not good for transit. A streetcar network if that is what this is should travel along Atlanta's most dense transit starved areas then connect to Marta. That will create a comprehensive network which is exactly what the city and region have been longing for. Why would the city create a route that doesn't serve enough people for light rail? Light rail doesn't even take a high population density compared to heavy rail for instance.
Parts of the beltline snake though some of the most densly populated areas in the city. The eastern portion may even be the most densly populated area in the south. There is more to the beltline than just the beltline, the plan is for a whole network of streetcar/lrt lines that go to downtown/midtown/buckhead. Simmiler to muni in san fransisco. If you go to the beltlines website you see they plan on building the more densly populated segments first to gain ridership and momentum, then they will go through the less dense places.
This seems like an aesthetic project of parks and leisure which is not good for transit.
The Beltline was never envisioned purely as a transit project. The plan has always included parks, trails, workforce housing, environmental remediation, historic preservation and public art as well as transit.
Atlanta BeltLine > Basics - Overview (http://beltline.org/BeltLineBasics/BeltLineBasicsOverview/tabid/1691/Default.aspx - broken link)
Similar Projects Worldwide (http://beltline.org/BeltLineBasics/SimilarProjectsWorldwide/tabid/3224/Default.aspx - broken link)
Parts of the beltline snake though some of the most densly populated areas in the city. The eastern portion may even be the most densly populated area in the south. There is more to the beltline than just the beltline, the plan is for a whole network of streetcar/lrt lines that go to downtown/midtown/buckhead. Simmiler to muni in san fransisco. If you go to the beltlines website you see they plan on building the more densly populated segments first to gain ridership and momentum, then they will go through the less dense places.
I have already seen the plans. The ridership projection is what I'm referring to. The discrepancy of the route not providing enough ridership for light rail at first. I can't seem to find a projection for ridership anywhere.
The Beltline was never envisioned purely as a transit project. The plan has always included parks, trails, workforce housing, environmental remediation, historic preservation and public art as well as transit.
Atlanta BeltLine > Basics - Overview (http://beltline.org/BeltLineBasics/BeltLineBasicsOverview/tabid/1691/Default.aspx - broken link)
Similar Projects Worldwide (http://beltline.org/BeltLineBasics/SimilarProjectsWorldwide/tabid/3224/Default.aspx - broken link)
The ridership projection is what I'm referring to. The discrepancy of the route not providing enough ridership for light rail at first. I can't seem to find a projection for ridership anywhere.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I have already seen the plans. The ridership projection is what I'm referring to. The discrepancy of the route not providing enough ridership for light rail at first. I can't seem to find a projection for ridership anywhere.
There are no ridership projections. Any comments of Beltline ridership is only conjecture at the moment. Some people are of the mind that it will be successful and have high to respectable ridership, some think it will fail.
Nothing official has been projected though since funding for the transit portion of the Beltline is still in progress. At the minimum we are about two years out from something solid being shown.
One thing we do know for certain is that the route of the Beltline is in the best possible location which be the way wasn't designed when the project was envisioned 10 years ago. The Beltline is an old industrial railway that is being repurposed, so no one sat down and drew up plans to build a brand new route. It's been in place for several decades now. The Beltline cuts through the oldest sections of Atlanta and for most of the route the surrounding neighborhoods are some of the highest density areas in the city. There are wild varitions however.
For example, the Northeast and Southwest section of the Beltline are late 20th century neighborhoods that average in density from around 6000 to 10,000+ people per square mile. These neighborhoods were all built around the former streetcar network, highly walkable, and (especially true in the Southwest section) have a very high non-car owning population that already uses transit. They also already have several nearby MARTA subway connections and dozens of bus routes so adding the Beltline will only prove to make these areas more cohesive. The Southwest side of the Beltline however is hit or miss because there is a fair amount of poverty there and it has not experienced the same level of development as the Northeast section has in the last 30 years. With this investment though it has the potential to really come alive.
The problem (and opportunity) comes in with the Southeast and Northwest sections of the Beltline. These areas of the Beltline were mostly industrial in nature with the Southeast portion being in an almost no operating capacity for nearly half a century now (the Rustbelt wasn't the only area of the country to expereince deindustrialization) and has experienced a large amount of blight, depopulation, and ill conceived "urban renewal" (aka demolishing) since it's heyday. The Northwest section is still actively industrial and because of that has a low population density since a large amount of the land is used for commercial purposes. The real test for the Beltline to be successful will be to tie together the Northeast and Southwest sections while completely transforming the Southeast section.
Then there is the fact that for most of the 22 mile loop of the Beltline is industrial brownfield that needs to be cleaned up and redeveloped. On top of that, a large focus has been put in to building new residential neighborhoods along the loop within the several dozen existing neighborhoods it cuts through. To give an idea of how massive that is, all together what's being redeveloped is a land area roughly 1/3 the size of the entire District of Columbia. In other words the Beltline is more than just a transit loop with some parks thrown in for show. It's the largest urban redevelopment project in the history of the United States since the end of Reconstruction, and perhaps ever in the country given we're essentially building a second city around already heavy populated urban core of the 8th largest metropolitan area in the country.
So talk of ridership right now is rather minor. However your initial intent of talking about what type of rail technology would be used on the route is totally appropriate given which is selected will go a long way in determining how the Beltline will evolve over the next several decades.
The ridership projection is what I'm referring to. The discrepancy of the route not providing enough ridership for light rail at first. I can't seem to find a projection for ridership anywhere.
Even if there were ridership projections, the actual numbers would more than likely exceed the projections like they have in several other cities.
It would be extremely shortsighted to not make the Beltline an LRT network.
There are no ridership projections. Any comments of Beltline ridership is only conjecture at the moment. Some people are of the mind that it will be successful and have high to respectable ridership, some think it will fail.
Nothing official has been projected though since funding for the transit portion of the Beltline is still in progress. At the minimum we are about two years out from something solid being shown.
One thing we do know for certain is that the route of the Beltline is in the best possible location which be the way wasn't designed when the project was envisioned 10 years ago. The Beltline is an old industrial railway that is being repurposed, so no one sat down and drew up plans to build a brand new route. It's been in place for several decades now. The Beltline cuts through the oldest sections of Atlanta and for most of the route the surrounding neighborhoods are some of the highest density areas in the city. There are wild varitions however.
For example, the Northeast and Southwest section of the Beltline are late 20th century neighborhoods that average in density from around 6000 to 10,000+ people per square mile. These neighborhoods were all built around the former streetcar network, highly walkable, and (especially true in the Southwest section) have a very high non-car owning population that already uses transit. They also already have several nearby MARTA subway connections and dozens of bus routes so adding the Beltline will only prove to make these areas more cohesive. The Southwest side of the Beltline however is hit or miss because there is a fair amount of poverty there and it has not experienced the same level of development as the Northeast section has in the last 30 years. With this investment though it has the potential to really come alive.
The problem (and opportunity) comes in with the Southeast and Northwest sections of the Beltline. These areas of the Beltline were mostly industrial in nature with the Southeast portion being in an almost no operating capacity for nearly half a century now (the Rustbelt wasn't the only area of the country to expereince deindustrialization) and has experienced a large amount of blight, depopulation, and ill conceived "urban renewal" (aka demolishing) since it's heyday. The Northwest section is still actively industrial and because of that has a low population density since a large amount of the land is used for commercial purposes. The real test for the Beltline to be successful will be to tie together the Northeast and Southwest sections while completely transforming the Southeast section.
Then there is the fact that for most of the 22 mile loop of the Beltline is industrial brownfield that needs to be cleaned up and redeveloped. On top of that, a large focus has been put in to building new residential neighborhoods along the loop within the several dozen existing neighborhoods it cuts through. To give an idea of how massive that is, all together what's being redeveloped is a land area roughly 1/3 the size of the entire District of Columbia. In other words the Beltline is more than just a transit loop with some parks thrown in for show. It's the largest urban redevelopment project in the history of the United States since the end of Reconstruction, and perhaps ever in the country given we're essentially building a second city around already heavy populated urban core of the 8th largest metropolitan area in the country.
So talk of ridership right now is rather minor. However your initial intent of talking about what type of rail technology would be used on the route is totally appropriate given which is selected will go a long way in determining how the Beltline will evolve over the next several decades.
That is interesting. I wonder why they didn't just design routes through existing neighborhoods instead of starting from scratch along the railroad line. The proposed project seems like it will take decades and transit lines could be built along existing neighborhoods right now where development is already present. How long do they expect to develop this project?
Your trolling again then. The project isn't all transit focused.
Just a little education for you, ridership projection's are the determining factor for mode choice. That is why I asked what the projections were. The thread is about whether the route should be lightrail or streetcar. Guess what, that has to do with ridership and ridership alone.
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