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No. I understand that it's been a center of black culture for a long time. I just take issue with the branding of what's going on down there as a "Renaissance," particularly when the city's primary contributions to black culture in recent years have been snap dances and gospel plays gone to the Big Screen.
There's a big difference between NWA rapping about black dysfunction and a flat out minstrel show. And the overwhelming majority of the music Atlanta has put out is minstrelsy. I don't think Atlanta is responsible for the direction hip hop has taken (as a lot of other rappers from different places are also minstrels), but people are celebrating the absolute low point in hip hop's overall history (fingers crossed) as Atlanta's hip hop "Golden Age." Are "snap" music and Madea movies really valuable contributions to black and American culture?
DC and Atlanta are very different. The professional associations and networks are larger, more varied, and more active in DC. Blacks in DC have more education than they do in Atlanta. You meet people doing cutting edge work. You meet black people who work for the Federal Reserve, the World Bank, USAID, and the Inter-American Development Bank, which deals with all types of issues related to the Caribbean. It's not uncommon to meet a black person there who writes for Reuters, teaches microbiology at Howard Med, or graduated top of his class from a top-tier law school and now clerks for the very prestigious D.C. Circuit. You also meet a lot of people from Africa and the Caribbean whose families basically run the countries they came from. You're not finding that caliber of professional in Atlanta.
The problem with D.C. though is that is lacks collaboration (not just limited to the Black population either), its way too much about the individual and being "proper" / politically correct than the collective and being competitive as a whole. You can be the smartest person in the world but doesn't mean you're going to win, it's usually those that have a strong support system that prevail.
No. I understand that it's been a center of black culture for a long time. I just take issue with the branding of what's going on down there as a "Renaissance," particularly when the city's primary contributions to black culture in recent years have been snap dances and gospel plays gone to the Big Screen.
There's a big difference between NWA rapping about black dysfunction and a flat out minstrel show. And the overwhelming majority of the music Atlanta has put out is minstrelsy. I don't think Atlanta is responsible for the direction hip hop has taken (as a lot of other rappers from different places are also minstrels), but people are celebrating the absolute low point in hip hop's overall history (fingers crossed) as Atlanta's hip hop "Golden Age." Are "snap" music and Madea movies really valuable contributions to black and American culture?
DC and Atlanta are very different. The professional associations and networks are larger, more varied, and more active in DC. Blacks in DC have more education than they do in Atlanta. You meet people doing cutting edge work. You meet black people who work for the Federal Reserve, the World Bank, USAID, and the Inter-American Development Bank, which deals with all types of issues related to the Caribbean. It's not uncommon to meet a black person there who writes for Reuters, teaches microbiology at Howard Med, or graduated top of his class from a top-tier law school and now clerks for the very prestigious D.C. Circuit. You also meet a lot of people from Africa and the Caribbean whose families basically run the countries they came from. You're not finding that caliber of professional in Atlanta.
Atlanta music is better than DC music. That horrible Go Go music in DC are garbage. Who in DC has sold more than Outkast?
You can find the same type of people in Atlanta. You need to stop hanging out in Bankhead. I have lived in both cities the blacks are about the same except DC blacks have more good gov jobs and attorney positions.
DC blacks make more money but blacks in Atlanta live better. Only nice areas in DC for blacks are in a FEW neighborhoods in PG and the Gold Coast. It doesnt compare to the size of the homes off Cascade, Lithonia, etc. PG County, the county that had more carjackings than the entire state of Va a few years ago
Besides
1. The Stanky Leg came from Dallas and has nothing to do with Atlanta, "this statement tells everything"
2. Georgia has the highest percentage of black owed business of any state,
3. Metro Atlanta has the 3rd largest black college student population and
4. has the Atlanta University Center the largest contiguous consortium of African Americans in higher education in the United States.
5. The hometown of MLK, home base of SCLC and other civil rights groups
6. W. E. B. Du Bois taught at Atlanta University, were he came out with some of is earliest theories " The Talented Tenth" and etc.
7. Booker T wrote the Atlanta Compromise
8. Andrew Young was mayor of Atlanta.
9. Sweet auburn is one of the most important African American neighborhoods in the US by history.
9. Atlanta films and TV scene for African Americans is a lot broader then Tyler Perry.
10. Atlanta is reflecting the broader state of African American culture today,
11. Atlanta hiphop culture is everything from Outkast to Goodie mob. ATL urban scene is pretty diverse.
12. Atlanta is also a major center for R&B/soul as it's for hiphop.
Did you even read the OP article from the New York Times?
It's hard to compete with New York but Atlanta does well against Chicago, DC and etc.
What's really going on in Atlanta that's really so special? The AU Center has fine liberal arts schools (Morehouse and Spelman, really), but then their brightest students end up going to grad schools in the Northeast or on the West Coast, and then end up in NYC or DC.
I'm trying to think of any major black cultural critics that live in Atlanta. I know Toure (former writer for Rolling Stone) lives in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. And so does Nelson George. Cornel West is leaving Princeton to return to NYC.
The problem with D.C. though is that is lacks collaboration (not just limited to the Black population either), its way too much about the individual and being "proper" / politically correct than the collective and being competitive as a whole. You can be the smartest person in the world but doesn't mean you're going to win, it's usually those that have a strong support system that prevail.
What are you talking about? Do you know how strong the professional network is in DC? And I'm not talking about just fancy happy hours where you pass out business cards (though those do have value). I'm talking about people saying, "Yeah, my boy's at Treasury. Just moved there from the SEC. Let me get the scoop on who the players are there and I'll get back to you." Or "Yeah, my boy's girlfriend used to clerk for Judge _____. Give me your resume and I'll send it to her so she can get it to him." Or "Such and such's dad runs ______ oil company in Nigeria. He's been making moves, so you might wanna get to know him." That's all DC is, really.
What's really going on in Atlanta that's really so special? The AU Center has fine liberal arts schools (Morehouse and Spelman, really), but then their brightest students end up going to grad schools in the Northeast or on the West Coast, and then end up in NYC or DC.
I'm trying to think of any major black cultural critics that live in Atlanta. I know Toure (former writer for Rolling Stone) lives in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. And so does Nelson George. Cornel West is leaving Princeton to return to NYC.
You'd think that these types of things would be the basis of any proclamation that X city is a mecca of black culture.
I know nyc isn't the mecca. No hsbu, atl has more upper middle class Blk neighborhoods, we have more mega churches, more Blk mayors, larger % of middle class blacks, etc. Most of the blacks in nyc live in the projects and on drugs
What are you talking about? Do you know how strong the professional network is in DC? And I'm not talking about just fancy happy hours where you pass out business cards (though those do have value). I'm talking about people saying, "Yeah, my boy's at Treasury. Just moved there from the SEC. Let me get the scoop on who the players are there and I'll get back to you." Or "Yeah, my boy's girlfriend used to clerk for Judge _____. Give me your resume and I'll send it to her so she can get it to him." Or "Such and such's dad runs ______ oil company in Nigeria. He's been making moves, so you might wanna get to know him." That's all DC is, really.
I grew up there BajanYankee and have seen many opportunities that have passed the D.C. area by as well as the divisive attitudes amongst the jurisdictions.
We're talking about the collective Black culture in a city and how strong their support system is and whatever you want to call it, Atlanta projects that better than D.C. What you just mentioned is nothing, that's just a friend helping a friend. Quite frankly it sounds like a whole bunch or bragging too "I, I, I" and "Me, me, me", typical D.C. individualistic attitude. For a race at the bottom of the totem pole it has to be more than that at this point in time.
I cannot put my finger on it but there is just something about the D.C. area that's lacking. Pride is one of those aspects. I don't know if it's the transplants from NJ/NY up north bringing that character to it or just that the locals don't care or aren't strong enough collectively but D.C. is just a bunch of individuals walking around that may bump into each other from time to time but never gets that big spark that creates a sustainable critical mass representing its own culture for the region and competes against other cities.
A lot of famous and great people grew or passed through the Baltimore/Washington area and went on to greatness but they never stick around and they have never all come together to take pride in the area. Maybe it's because the region leaves you in a love/hate relationship with resentment being the last part that you remember. It happened to Oprah , Tupac, Martin, Dave Chappellle etc. They all were well prepared by this area but left probably with a bad taste in their mouths, "time to move on".
I think musician Tank from Clinton, Maryland said it best, to paraphrase him, it was along the lines of, when you reach success there is a difference between the way you are treated in Atlanta versus D.C., he said in Atlanta you are congratulated and praised for your success, they throw out the red carpet for you. In D.C. they ask you "so you think you're better than the rest of us now?"
The 1990s into 2000s was a heyday for Blacks from the Maryland/Baltimore/Washington area but nobody even knew it. Dominique Dawes, Steve Francis, Toni Braxton, Martin Lawrence, Ginuwine, Mya, Dru Hill, Dave Chappelle etc all from the area or a big part of their life happened here. No one ever is proud to say that they came from the area besides maybe the Baltimoreans, it's almost like a dirty little secret. I also hate how D.C. proper claims a lot of famous people from the area when 9 out of 10 they are from Maryland like Dave Chappelle.
Today you may have Wale (Nigerian) cheering D.C. but that's it, and he can't even get that edge, I'm sure he would have done better in Atlanta. D.C. is books smarts but not very street smart, it just doesn't know how to promote itself, and form a strong support system, its almost like it's oblivious to the fact that it's competing. Baltimore does a better job but not by much. D.C. has a great genre of music with Go-Go (how many cities have created a genre of music?) but how far has it gotten out of the D.C. area?
The jurisdictions also hate each other which adds fuel to the fire. D.C. proper hates Prince George's County and basks in its misery and complains about its successes (National Harbor). Montgomery County has a black County Executive Ike Leggett but he never got together with Jack Johnson the former County exec of Prince George's County, today the new County exec is dukin it out over who gets a federal government agency while both counties are getting their asses kicked by northern virginia which has virtually no Black officials or population at all.
I grew up there BajanYankee and have seen many opportunities that have passed the D.C. area by as well as the divisive attitudes amongst the jurisdictions.
We're talking about the collective Black culture in a city and how strong their support system is and whatever you want to call it, Atlanta projects that better than D.C. What you just mentioned is nothing, that's just a friend helping a friend. For a race at the bottom of the totem pole it has to be more than that at this point in time.
I really have no idea what you're talking about. I don't confer "mecca" status to a city based on the number of famous people it produces. I judge a city based on the social, political and intellectual capital it possesses. DC is a town of strivers, players, and movers and shakers. The professional community is very tightly-knit. Everyone knows everyone, and more importantly, everyone's trying to know everyone. I couldn't care less how many Grammy winners claim the city; it's not important. The Legal Defense Fund is important. The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies is important. The National Society of Black Engineers (based in Alexandria, VA) is important. Those things have a much greater impact on black people than any Madea movie.
I really have no idea what you're talking about. I don't confer "mecca" status to a city based on the number of famous people it produces. I judge a city based on the social, political and intellectual capital it possesses. DC is a town of strivers, players, and movers and shakers. The professional community is very tightly-knit. Everyone knows everyone, and more importantly, everyone's trying to know everyone. I couldn't care less how many Grammy winners claim the city; it's not important. The Legal Defense Fund is important. The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies is important. Healthcare is important. Redistricting is important. Those things have a much greater impact on black people than any Madea movie.
Of course you wouldn't.
And oh so this about Black people? So how does the "The Legal Defense Fund, The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, Healthcare agencies" etc helping the Black people in particular? Looks like it's just about the individual figure head.
I don't think you get even what you're saying, so what if some Black people have government positions, they really aren't doing anything collectively to further the region or Black people. They're just individuals concerned about themselves. Just tokens too more than not.
And I don't know why you keep mentioning madea obviously Atlanta is more than that.
The professional Black community in D.C. is not that tight-knit, they definitely have their clicks, the main reason of why they want to know each other is to out do each other.
And oh so this about Black people? So how does the "The Legal Defense Fund, The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, Healthcare agencies" etc helping the Black people in particular? Looks like it's just about the individual figure head.
I don't think you get even what you're saying, so what if some Black people have government positions, they really aren't doing anything collectively to further the region or Black people. They're just individuals concerned about themselves. Just tokens too more than not.
And I don't know why you keep mentioning madea obviously Atlanta is more than that.
Right. Things like redistricting have no effect on black people whatsoever, right? The constitutional challenges that have been mounted against imporant provisions of Obama's healthcare law? No biggie, right? Studies on early childhood education in the black community? Who needs those?
Now I'll tell you what would really make a difference in all of our lives: The Sooooooooooooooul Train Awards. Followed by the "Real Housewives of Atlanta." My heart's swelling with pride right now. We've made it through slavery, Jim Crow, and finally to the red carpet of the Soul Train Awards on Peachtree Street!!! Dr. King's dream has finally been fulfilled. Cue up the Negro spirituals.
Forget medical researchers, policy analysts, bankers, traders, economists, lobbyists, scientists, journalists, public intellectuals, engineers and transactional attorneys. The black community needs more entertainers. Lord knows our community has always had a shortage of those! So raise your bottle of Muscato to the sky! Raises those glasses, ladies. It's a celebration!
Last edited by BajanYankee; 12-02-2011 at 10:19 AM..
Getting a job in Home Depot's Corporate Office and buying a nice car is not "success." If we do consider that success, then damn, I don't know what else to say.
I don't get this. Are you saying someone getting an executive job at Home Depot Corp is not success?
What is success to you? Isn't that subjective?
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