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i completely agree w/ randywatson. in fact, short of ncy, chicago, l.a., maybe dallas and houston, san francisco, d.c., miami, atlanta, detriot, and a few possibly like las vegas, memphis, philly, boston, minneapolis, and possibly seattle, i believe that probably 2/3rd's of americans would not be able to pin down these cities in their states, should they be given an outline of the states, and they were unmarked. even beyond that, probably most would not know the capitals of the states, nor the bigges city in the states.
What are high tax places attracting? Illegal immigrants and a third world status like in California? How ironic, low cost Texas is attracting California's skilled and educated!
High-taxes or low taxes also have nothing to do with transit, infrastructure, and services funding. That's all about the state and local governments management and allocation of funds no matter where they come from.
Maryland recently passed a Millionaire's tax and not only did they fall well below the estimated funds to be raised, many of those Millionaire's quickly changed their addresses and moved. Knocking one their wealthiest counties out of the top 10 in the U.S.
Amazing how people are crying for higher taxes. People who moved from NJ and Cali would beg to differ, that's why they moved south, although sometimes it seems they forgot why they moved and want to turn the South and Mid-Atlantic into the place they left.
That is all short term. Long term the smartest and talented (and often richest) are going to want to live in states with high tax that have better infrastructure, transit, parks, low crime and good schools. They see the value and when the economy picks up they will want out of cheap cheap low quality of life and want to move back to real cities like Chicago and San Fran that offer the high quality of life at the expense of higher but worthwhile in the long run taxes. Once you are successful and smart money doesn't become big deal as quality of life. Smart and talented people know that in the long run.
Ever notice how angry and clicky people are in Atlanta. It's this cheap cheap lifestyle and city. The need to flash. The lack of community because everyone is out for themselves due to the sprawl and awful crime. No one trust anyone. People are depressed because of long commutes , bad schools, bad crime and a "fake it, even if you never make it" mentality that comes from this insecurity. Smart people with talents and money don't want to live in that. Money isn't everything if your quality of life sucks to save a few dollars and it all comes back to the low tax.
That is all short term. Long term the smartest and talented (and often richest) are going to want to live in states with high tax that have better infrastructure, transit, parks, low crime and good schools. They see the value and when the economy picks up they will want out of cheap cheap low quality of life and want to move back to real cities like Chicago and San Fran that offer the high quality of life at the expense of higher but worthwhile in the long run taxes. Once you are successful and smart money doesn't become big deal as quality of life. Smart and talented people know that in the long run.
You're right about that, it's all short term until the Tax and Spend states get with the program and start lowering their taxes just like Michigan has done. Until then the blood hemorrhaging will continue for places like California as businesses flee for Texas and Georgia.
And lol your "often richest, talented and smartest" people don't use subways or public schools. And the public schools in the city cores around the country are mostly pretty much deplorable in the first place.
The skilled and educated work force businesses want (those businesses that your "richest, talented and smartest" run) are more frequently being found in places like Georgia and Texas because they've fled the high-tax places NJ and California with high crime, crumbling cities, and degrading quality of life. Where is the money going?
Here's some news for you as well, California has been crashing before the economy started correcting. You seem to forget that the Southern states are relatively young and they will continue to build their major cities to nice urban centers over the long-term as they continue to steal business from high-tax states.
Other variables being equal, good schools will not sway a business to choose one state over another but low taxes will.
Who the hell likes high-taxes? I don't think anyone with common sense likes to be taxed, they just want the money spent responsibly and optimally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peachcity
Ever notice how angry and clicky people are in Atlanta. It's this cheap cheap lifestyle and city. The need to flash. The lack of community because everyone is out for themselves due to the sprawl and awful crime. No one trust anyone. People are depressed because of long commutes , bad schools, bad crime and a "fake it, even if you never make it" mentality that comes from this insecurity. Smart people with talents and money don't want to live in that. Money isn't everything if your quality of life sucks to save a few dollars and it all comes back to the low tax.
This last paragraph is just your bias bitterness towards Atlanta so no need to waste my time on that.
You're right about that, it's all short term until the Tax and Spend states get with the program and start lowering their taxes just like Michigan has done. Until then the blood hemorrhaging will continue for places like California as businesses flee for Texas and Georgia.
And lol your "often richest, talented and smartest" people don't use subways or public schools. And the public schools in the city cores around the country are mostly pretty much deplorable in the first place.
The skilled and educated work force businesses want (those businesses that your "richest, talented and smartest" run) are more frequently being found in places like Georgia and Texas because they've fled the high-tax places NJ and California with high crime, crumbling cities, and degrading quality of life. Where is the money going?
Here's some news for you as well, California has been crashing before the economy started correcting. You seem to forget that the Southern states are relatively young and they will continue to build their major cities to nice urban centers over the long-term as they continue to steal business from high-tax states.
Other variables being equal, good schools will not sway a business to choose one state over another but low taxes will.
Who the hell likes high-taxes? I don't think anyone with common sense likes to be taxed, they just want the money spent responsibly and optimally.
It's is not about being taxed as much as the city having enough money to improve quality of life. People of all stripes in high tax places with good transit ride transit, unlike here in Atlanta with it only being poor people. Many stories on city-data about people moving here because it is cheap and then hating it because they are getting what they pay for. It is the mentality of populous also.
People here are cheap so they will never use fund from taxes to increase safety in dense area or transit options. The talented people from places that care about quality of life will realize this and head back. They already are. Look at how many companies wont come here due to back quality of life.
It's is not about being taxed as much as the city having enough money to improve quality of life. People of all stripes in high tax places with good transit ride transit, unlike here in Atlanta with it only being poor people. Many stories on city-data about people moving here because it is cheap and then hating it because they are getting what they pay for. It is the mentality of populous also.
People here are cheap so they will never use fund from taxes to increase safety in dense area or transit options. The talented people from places that care about quality of life will realize this and head back. They already are. Look at how many companies wont come here due to back quality of life.
OK more bias bitterness, I'll leave you for the Atlantans to rip you apart.
There are articles highlighting how educated young people are thriving in cities where creative capital is strong. These cities tend to be more politically and socially liberal, and also have higher tax rates to fund mass transit, the arts and so on. And once the fuel is lit, these cities start to exponentially expand, attracting increasing numbers of more creative types. This is what you see occurring in New York/Brooklyn, Washington, DC, San Francisco.
So while working-class, lower middle class and uneducated people may be fleeing California and the Northeast due to poor skillsets and a lack of qualifiying jobs, these same regions are attracting highly talented and educated individuals.
A lot of this low-tax mantra you hear in the Atlanta forum is leftover "jingoism" from the Reagan era. Trickle-down economics has been shown to be nothing but "voodoo economics", fleecing the working and middle classes and pooling wealth into the top 1%. Atlanta's heyday was during this period when it attracted executives relocating during the "Big 80s". What's left are aging, poorly built McMansions and shopping centres, with no funds to improve them due to a minimal tax base.
in 2012 educated young people recognize this unsustainable and poorly executed type of development and are increasingly shunning Atlanta. They're not attracted to low taxes, sprawl, car dependent subdivisions and other trappings that made Atlanta appealing in the past. Atlanta's reputation as a hip-hop heaven doesn't help either.
There are articles highlighting how educated young people are thriving in cities where creative capital is strong. These cities tend to be more politically and socially liberal, and also have higher tax rates to fund mass transit, the arts and so on. And once the fuel is lit, these cities start to exponentially expand, attracting increasing numbers of more creative types. This is what you see occurring in New York/Brooklyn, Washington, DC, San Francisco.
So while working-class, lower middle class and uneducated people may be fleeing California and the Northeast due to poor skillsets and a lack of qualifiying jobs, these same regions are attracting highly talented and educated individuals.
A lot of this low-tax mantra you hear in the Atlanta forum is leftover "jingoism" from the Reagan era. Trickle-down economics has been shown to be nothing but "voodoo economics", fleecing the working and middle classes and pooling wealth into the top 1%. Atlanta's heyday was during this period when it attracted executives relocating during the "Big 80s". What's left are aging, poorly built McMansions and shopping centres, with no funds to improve them due to a minimal tax base.
in 2012 educated young people recognize this unsustainable and poorly executed type of development and are increasingly shunning Atlanta. They're not attracted to low taxes, sprawl, car dependent subdivisions and other trappings that made Atlanta appealing in the past. Atlanta's reputation as a hip-hop heaven doesn't help either.
Do you read these articles before posting them? Even the ABC article you posted proves my point. Despite Atlanta's drop it still ranks higher than Boston of all places in attracting the 25 to 34 demographic. So there goes your theory.
The flock to Washington it certainly not driven by any a new found "silicon valley" but by the safety in the all easy government job which is contrary to your "creative class migration" theory, same goes for Denver which is like Washington outside of Washington. And even when people do move to the D.C. area the vast majority of businesses are going to northern Virginia, the lowest business cost state in the region, with a corporate income tax equal to Georgia and lower than North Carolina and also a personal income tax lower than both. Colorado is gaining recognition as a low cost state as well. And there is no mass transit rail all over most of northern Va, it's as suburban as it comes, especially Fairfax county where 90% percent of relocated businesses go, the entire area is cookie cutter housing and office parks besides parts of Arlington county and Alexandria.
Also Mr. Santa Monica, with all the trumpeting of "educated young people going for transit and urban city scape", it's ironic that a place like Silicon Valley should exist, a sprawling mass of office parks, shouldn't the urban core of San Francisco be the bulk of all this creative class and businesses? Look at Apple's proposed headquarters lol! If that's not telling I don't know what is.
The article below explains what's actually going on in the real world,
it's is not about being taxed as much as the city having enough money to improve quality of life. People of all stripes in high tax places with good transit ride transit, unlike here in atlanta with it only being poor people. Many stories on city-data about people moving here because it is cheap and then hating it because they are getting what they pay for. It is the mentality of populous also.
People here are cheap so they will never use fund from taxes to increase safety in dense area or transit options. The talented people from places that care about quality of life will realize this and head back. They already are. Look at how many companies wont come here due to back quality of life.
People aren't leaving places like CA because of taxes, they are leaving because decades of in migration made the housing incredibly costly. It, like portions of the North East, are simply not affordable to most people.
As someone who moved from the northeast, of course taxes are a factor in a decision to leave somewhere like CA or the northeast. Often taxes are a large part of what makes owning a home unaffordable. When your property tax bill is $12,000/year, that's an additional $1,000/mo tacked on to your mortgage. When the schools and the roads, and the other services being provided for that tax money are sub-standard, that leads to people picking up and leaving.
Not sure how you could make that statement.
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