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Old 05-02-2013, 01:50 PM
 
9,124 posts, read 36,262,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium expedited the decay of those neighborhoods. I understand where arajay is coming from. It seems like poor, minority, urban neighborhoods bare the weight of having these sports palaces built in them, but share none of the revenue the stadiums create. You better believe if there was a proposal for this to be built in Buckhead or Sandy Springs the residents would have a hissy fit.
And yet, when the Falcons were talking about building on the old GM plant site in Doraville, everyone threw a hissy fit, saying that the stadium "had to be built in the center of the city". Now it's "the stadium is going to destroy existing neighborhoods and wreck the 'urban fabric' of Atlanta". Last I checked, there weren't a whole lot of large parcels of open space in/around downtown, so if you want it here, you've got to accept that it's going to displace/upset some folks. Putting it in Doraville would have had far less of an impact on its surroundings.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,689,423 times
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Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
And yet, when the Falcons were talking about building on the old GM plant site in Doraville, everyone threw a hissy fit, saying that the stadium "had to be built in the center of the city". Now it's "the stadium is going to destroy existing neighborhoods and wreck the 'urban fabric' of Atlanta". Last I checked, there weren't a whole lot of large parcels of open space in/around downtown, so if you want it here, you've got to accept that it's going to displace/upset some folks. Putting it in Doraville would have had far less of an impact on its surroundings.
You couldn't be farther from what arajay and I are talking about. What does this billion dollar stadium do for the poor neighborhoods to the west?
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:54 PM
 
31,993 posts, read 36,507,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
I was hoping for photographs of actual stadiums, not fictional, idealized illustrations. But even in the illustrations you provided, what I see is a very Turner Field-esque environment - a massive stadium with a lof of surface parking, and no businesses or residences in the vicinity. I fail to see how these renderings are an example of what you want the Falcons stadium to be.
Building huge surface lots is a matter of choice, not necessity. Surely this new stadium will not permit that!

I'm really thinking more about the nature of the stadium itself, however. There's no reason it can't be open and inviting to the surrounding community, especially since we're starting from ground zero. I don't see any indication that those were considerations in either of these design proposals.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 1,257,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I said earlier that I'm no expert on stadiums.
Yes. And I was agreeing with you, based on your subsequent comments.

Quote:
But if they are necessarily massive structures that will always stick out in any urban fabric, then why sic such a thing on a poor, minority area that's already struggling?
It's not clear to me why building a tourist attraction and any surrounding development that follows will be a hardship for the poor, struggling area, or what its demographics have to do with it. Wouldn't development and investment in the area be a good thing? How would building the stadium in the suburbs help this area?

Quote:
It would be nice if it gave local residents (as well as tourists) a place to eat, drink, shop, visit or just hang out for a while and enjoy the city. I don't see why bathroom facilities should be out of the question either -- bodily functions don't cease simply because you're in the vicinity of an NFL facility.
You should participate in new development around the area. I eagerly await the opportunity to visit your restroom.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:21 PM
 
3,692 posts, read 5,934,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
You couldn't be farther from what arajay and I are talking about. What does this billion dollar stadium do for the poor neighborhoods to the west?
With all due respect to the terrible development decisions and externalities that the city/sports teams/GWCC/whoever has imposed in the past, what does the stadium do to the poor neighborhoods to the west? (This isn't aimed at you or anyone in general; just a way of framing the issue.)

The area is currently a surface lot (with the exception of the church), and the adjacent land use is exactly the same as the proposed one. Vine City and English Avenue have a sad lot in this city, but I just don't see the stadium making matters any worse for them. I certainly see this as less of a marginal impact than the GWCC, the GWCC expansions, or the original Dome. And the fact that Blank has committed $x million to making the area better is a non-trivial plus. There's a good chance the neighborhoods to the west are at least as well of after the stadium as they are in the status quo.

With a design like Pantheon, perhaps it will even become a tourist destination. I would personally take a stroll over to see a stadium like that. So there's a reasonable argument to be made that more business will be coming through the area. And besides, I don't see anything in particular about the renderings that suggests the stadium will be especially non-engaging to pedestrians. The bottom 10 feet of the structure are really what matters in this regard, and there ain't much detail on that yet. One can be against a stadium as a generally non-engaging land use, but I wouldn't use that as a reason to trash these particular designs at this point.


I'm personally more concerned about Castleberry Hill. Those impacts feel a lot more like "new" impacts to me. Although the neighborhood could actually be a catalyst for some nice, new development between it and the new stadium. (Doesn't its Landmark District designation/zoning extend a couple blocks up to the north?)
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 1,257,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
You see this in college stadiums all over the place. It's also done with baseball stadiums. What's the big deal about making a football stadium that way?
NFL stadiums are much, much larger. I did see U2 in the rain at TCF, though. Here's what it really looks like:

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Old 05-02-2013, 02:28 PM
 
9,124 posts, read 36,262,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
You couldn't be farther from what arajay and I are talking about. What does this billion dollar stadium do for the poor neighborhoods to the west?
I'd say that will depend on the residents of the neighborhood, as would be the case wherever the stadium was built. There will be job opportunities created- both during and after construction- as well as opportunities for the neighborhood to "rise up" and improve itself. I believe the Falcons have agreed to invest some pretty decent $$ into the adjacent areas, and if that process is managed well, the neighborhood stands to improve significantly. If the residents take advantage of these opportunities and get involved, this could be a chance to change the overall fabric of the neighborhood for the better, that might not come along again. If they sit around with their hands out just waiting to have things done for them, the results may not be the same.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:32 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,206,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I'm really thinking more about the nature of the stadium itself, however. There's no reason it can't be open and inviting to the surrounding community, especially since we're starting from ground zero. I don't see any indication that those were considerations in either of these design proposals.
That's fine, but you need to say what that actually is. Define it. Or better yet, show me a picture of a stadium that has actually achieved that goal. At least the pantheon design rendering is showing a farily large piece of greenspace adjacent to the stadium (see slideshow at link).

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/n...=image_gallery
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:02 PM
 
31,993 posts, read 36,507,354 times
Reputation: 13249
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
That's fine, but you need to say what that actually is. Define it. Or better yet, show me a picture of a stadium that has actually achieved that goal. At least the pantheon design rendering is showing a farily large piece of greenspace adjacent to the stadium (see slideshow at link).

SLIDESHOW: Atlanta Falcons stadium -- Pantheon proposal - Atlanta Business Chronicle
Okay, so maybe the "Trust us, folks, there's nothing we can do about the size of this thing and the way it blocks you out" approach is the only way to go with this project.

It is interesting that you don't hear a lot of voices on the internets from English Avenue and Vine City. My experience suggests that if a project like this were proposed in NPU E, B, C or F the nearby neighborhoods would be blistering the city, the state and the Falcons with demands for fine grain clarification of pedestrian infrastructure, streetscapes, lighting, policing, master planning, water runoff, traffic studies, greenspace, tree recompense and every other little crosshatch on the plan documents. They wouldn't hesitate to drop the hammer with litigation either.

Consider, for example, how quickly Decatur got up in arms over Cousins proposal to build an apartment building. Or how Druid Hills has gone to war to stop a builder from cramming 7 homes onto a mere 3 acres. Or the way Midtown geared up over a nightclub.

But as several have said in this thread, the land over there next to the stadium isn't worth much so perhaps those folks just have to live with it.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:11 PM
 
2,406 posts, read 3,334,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
You couldn't be farther from what arajay and I are talking about. What does this billion dollar stadium do for the poor neighborhoods to the west?
Who cares what it does for the poor neighborhoods to the west?
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