2012 Atlanta Region Transportation Referendum (Kennesaw, Stockbridge: island, interstate, America)

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Any of you anti TIA attend the rally to show your opposition? No, didn't see anyone but there was a good mix of people to support it. Old, young, white, black, rich, poor. A lot of people believe this tax will improve their lives and for future generations.

Didn't need to have a rally.

Seems like more people believe the tax will not improve their lives enough to justify the cost.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by neil0311

This is not the be all, end all. This is not a "do something now or you can never do anything ever again" as we are being told.

No, it is not the be all, end all.

Practically speaking, however, the realities of Georgia and metro Atlanta politics make it highly unlikely there will be another bite at the apple in the foreseeable future. If y'all know anybody who believes a new, cooperative spirit will emerge during the next 8 or 10 years, please send him my way. I have some excellent python-breeding property for sale.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by arjay57

No, it is not the be all, end all.

Practically speaking, however, the realities of Georgia and metro Atlanta politics make it highly unlikely there will be another bite at the apple in the foreseeable future. If y'all know anybody who believes a new, cooperative spirit will emerge during the next 8 or 10 years, please send him my way. I have some excellent python-breeding property for sale.

Did you listen to the YouTube video that I posted earlier in the thread? In that video, as well as in the Sierra Club/Tea Party press release, and in many of the debates, the opposition has time and again proposed ways to achieve the goals. Even the ARC's own plan was far better thought out than this one. There is absolutely no reason that the state, counties, and cities cannot move forward on necessary projects, and the there is no reason that the legislature and GDOT cannot move forward important projects that actually achieve the desired goal of reducing congestion, that are funded, and with known scheduled completion targets.

Just like the federal stimulus was not a stimulus and ended up achieving nothing for an $800 billion price tag of borrowed money, this TSPLOST is by the state's own admission NOT going to significantly reduce congestion or commute times, if it will reduce them at all. It has parts that are contingent upon funding that is not guaranteed, and it has parts that are not guaranteed to be completed in 10 years. It has no indication of how future operating and maintenance costs will be funded or what happens when inevitable cost overruns happen.

It's just a poorly thought out plan, conceived and drawn up by the politicians for political reasons.

[Nanosolar]

Originally Posted by neil0311

It's just a poorly thought out plan, conceived and drawn up by the politicians for political reasons.

Well kiddo, every plan will be written by politicians, and most plans do have some political rationale. Welcome to Democracy!

People like you are going to kill Atlanta. Thanks!

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Is Sen Vincent Fort a radical?

his reasons for opposing it are pretty far off to the extreme - he primarily opposes it because he doesn't like that it doesn't have provisions for minority owned business contracts. i consider myself pretty liberal/open minded, have been in a mixed relationship for a few years now... and at this point i think the contract should go to the best bidder, not one based on race.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Sorry, but that's so way off it's not even funny. No one is giving "business leaders" any finger, and frankly I resent the implication that if I don't vote for this plan, then I want Atlanta to fail and people to starve, and the roads to be clogged, and dogs and cats to no longer live together.

I didn't say all that I said your giving Atlanta "business leaders" the fingers, Explain how are you not?

black A

Atlanta blue-chip businesses generous to transportation campaign - Atlanta Business Chronicle

The following companies are funding ads in favor of voting yes for TSPLOST

Here is a list of contributors of $100,000 or more, according to the report:
Clear Channel Outdoor Inc. - $295,000
National Association of Realtors - $281,000
Cox Enterprises Inc. - $250,000
Georgia Highway Contractors Association - $250,000
Georgia Power Co. - $250,000
C.W. Matthews Contracting Co. Inc. - $200,000
The Coca-Cola Co. (NYSE: KO) - $187,500
Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE: DAL) - $150,000
The Home Depot Inc. (NYSE: HD) - $150,000
Yancey Brothers Co. - $150,000
Vulcan Materials Co. - $105,000
AGL Resources Inc. (NYSE: GAS) - $100,000
AT&T Inc. (NYSE: T) - $100,000
Carlyle Fraser Employees Benefit Fund - $100,000
IntercontinentalExchange Inc. (NYSE: ICE) - $100,000
Jamestown Properties - $100,000
Newell Rubbermaid Inc. (NYSE: NWL) - $100,000
Post Apartment Homes L.P. -$100,000
Rock-Tenn Co. (NYSE: RKT) - $100,000
Siemens Industry Inc. - $100,000
SunTrust Banks Inc. (NYSE: STI) - $100,000
Turner Broadcasting Inc. - $100,000
United Parcel Service Inc. (NYSE: UPS) - $100,000

Also as I been saying all Atlanta CIDs are for this, CIDs are Business run special districts in the Atlanta area. They are important in suggesting plans and they even tax themselves fund what they can. This not the Government ideals This is literally the Business Community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busines...ement_district
Buckhead Community Improvement District
Perimeter Center Community Improvement Districts,
Cumberland Community Improvement District
Town Center Area Community Improvement District
Gwinnett Place Community Improvement District
Gwinnett Village Community Improvement District
Evermore Community Improvement District
Lilburn Community Improvement District
North Fulton Community Improvement District
South Fulton Community Improvement District
The midtown alliance
Atlanta Downtown Improvement District

I also said this
TSPLOST defeat would be stone for competitors to throw at ATL - Atlanta Business Chronicle

Again please explain how are you not giving Atlanta business the finger?

This is not the be all, end all. This is not a "do something now or you can never do anything ever again" as we are being told. This is not an economic stimulus. This is not a jobs bill. This was a good idea that got caught up in politics and ended up being a bad plan, that will not accomplish the stated purpose of reducing road congestion, and I will not vote for something that I do not think will accomplish the results needed at a reasonable cost.

Reality Check you have low faith in the government now, and you believe a plan B would be your fantasy list, all that would do is stretch the political circus. Hard liberal are against the bill too because they want there list to "add more" transit that's part of the people voting No this time. Your voting no because you want your list they voting no because they want there list, they are against the list for the opposite reasons your again't the list. As I said a political circus it's already the craziest thing every one expects if there's a plan B list it would be closer to there list.

Also That is a political talking point I bet you said the same thing about Obama health care plan or the economic stimulus bill, everything is wasteful spending it's a political game. Also don't argue with me about jobs argue with the Atlanta business leaders "echo", we are at the point now there are people telling business leaders what good and bad for them. And things is The federal stimulus was only approve by DEM this list was approve by the majority of DEM and REP but your still using same argument.

As for the "only ones opposing are radicals" .... are you freaking kidding? Earth to chiatlal...Earth to chiatldal....Come in chiatldal. Have you read the polls? Have you read comments on other boards and in response to AJC and other pieces? This thing barely is getting 50% polling in Fulton and Dekalb. It's losing by a good margin just about everywhere else. If only "radicals" are opposing it, then half the voters in Fulton and Dekalb are radicals, and 60% or more of all other voters are also radicals. Is Sen Vincent Fort a radical?

That's a straw man a good one thank you but please don't do that, the opposition are radicals the public are listening to the radicals the people generally voting no are not the one running the counters campaign those are the radicals, I could swear I just said

A, My issue is the majority of whom voting no will be people having the ideal the government is trying to force ideals and taxes on them when it's not. Most of who will be voting no are in principle small government pro capitalistic. What going on is there groups like the tea party and etc framing themselves in favor of the business community over the government, when these are ideals of the business community not damn liberals, the tea party promotes it's liberals though. The tea party is not on the side of capitalists there in the third or voluntary sector a advocacy group, a far right group fighting anything they at least perceive as liberal ideals. You can't say it not playing politics because it's just a dang 1 cent sales.

If transportation vote fails, is there a plan B? *| ajc.com
But it's not just the far right the left is doing this too like Sierra Club and etc are against this because it's not there perfect list, From the link above above the NAACP, yeah I got the link from you it helps

At 52 percent transit and 48 percent roads for the region, South DeKalb advocates can't believe they didn't get their own rail line, but had to settle for a $225 million express bus system instead — especially since DeKalb residents have paid a penny sales tax for MARTA for years.

"So here they come now, here's the folks who have not been paying any taxes in the system from Jump Street," said John Evans, president of the DeKalb County branch of the NAACP. " ...They want to let them in to pay a penny, and they get most of the action. And we wind up paying 2 cents.

Again playing politics

Originally Posted by neil0311

It's just a poorly thought out plan, conceived and drawn up by the politicians for political reasons

I just talk about this above!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT IDEALS!!! IT"S BUSINESS LEADERS IDEALS, and your playing politics please see red A then black A But your right many voting no have that in thought but thanks for proving my point, but it's sad if this get voted down over the BS you just said.

[cqholt]

It will cost the average Atlantan $24-$50 per year. That's all, are y'all that much of a tight wand that you think that little amount of money isn't worth investing in our future? The job creators of Atlanta are willing to pay the tax themselves for the better of themselves, their business, and their employees. Not like the Bush tax cuts, where the rich are getting a break, they are promoting the idea of taxing themselves. And I'm tired of all you on here talking about the 'poor'. Ain't any of you poor so how do you know what the poor think? More and better transit for them means they can get better jobs and spend less time and money on transportation.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Did you listen to the YouTube video that I posted earlier in the thread? In that video, as well as in the Sierra Club/Tea Party press release, and in many of the debates, the opposition has time and again proposed ways to achieve the goals. Even the ARC's own plan was far better thought out than this one. There is absolutely no reason that the state, counties, and cities cannot move forward on necessary projects, and the there is no reason that the legislature and GDOT cannot move forward important projects that actually achieve the desired goal of reducing congestion, that are funded, and with known scheduled completion targets.

I have watched it and several other similar videos.

Unfortunately none of those funding methods are realistic. If they were feasible, why hasn't anyone done any of them before?

[FlyiMetro]

Originally Posted by Nanosolar

Well kiddo, every plan will be written by politicians, and most plans do have some political rationale. Welcome to Democracy!

People like you are going to kill Atlanta. Thanks!

no way to kill something that is stuck in traffic. Atlanta will be fine, whether people vote yes or no.

[tuckerman]

Time for a reality check.This is the most transit friendly plan that has been proposed - because of that it will probably fail. The next transit friendly plan is scheduled for the far distant future - that is Plan D (as in dead or not in our lifetime)