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What might work? An International market. We like to call ourselves an International City, yet we appear less international to visitors than many other major cities due to a lack of distinct areas inside the City limits that have an International feel to them. Telling visitors to "drive a few miles up Buford Highway" to get an international flavor isn't exactly world class. I would propose that Underground leases space to vendors of more mid to higher range merchandise from a variety of ethnic backgrounds. Sections of Underground could be themed... a South American area, African area, Asian area, etc. It could literally be a "world market" type of facility. Or, since Mayor Reed has a hair up his rear about buddying up with China lately, why not make Underground Atlanta's official "China Town"? Offer incentives for Chinese businesses to relocate into it, change the look, etc?
Just a thought.
that's got to be one of the best ideas i've heard yet, and would completely transform that area.
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
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@ rackensack
So why wouldn't the whole underground just go the way of the old buckhead nightlife area and redevelop it. Get rid of the underground name (by the way, just the name gives the impression of being seedy, doesn't it?) and give it some cutesy name like atlantic station, get rid of all the mall-like shops and kiosks and entice certain new ones to come in that cater to the residents and office tenants/workers. Like a market or two, some delis and coffee shops and some restaurants a couple of hotels. Maybe some dry cleaners, gyms, daycare or those school thingies. Link it up to other desirable areas by subway.
Nightlife district is probably a good way to go, but understanding that it will probably never be a "real" nightlife district like Buckhead was or midtown is. Instead, go for kind of the "safe" touristy nightlife kind of vibe. Places like Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville, Pat O'Brien's, Fat Tuesday's, and things like that. Sure, people from town will rarely go, but something that feels fun but safe for tourists. Think places like Citiwalk at Universal Studios in Orlando or The Grove in Los Angeles...even Pier Park in good old Panama City Beach. I'm not saying we can't also have some local flavor, an Atkins Park or local nightclub would be great additions.
Of course, I've said this before, and I will say it again: The *ONLY* way this area can be successful is if it is secured. People will absolutely not go there if they can not walk around and get to and from their cars without people hassling them for money or otherwise harassing them. At some point, Atlanta is going to have to make a very serious choice. Either give up on trying to be a successful tourist city, or say damn the torpedoes we're going all out and we don't care if we upset the homeless advocacy groups. No matter how much it is touted by some here, "being aware of your surroundings and walking with a purpose" is not how a tourist wants to enjoy a trip.
I'm not saying I have the best ideas on how to make Undergound succeed. I'm sure there are lots of ideas, and many of them no doubt are better than mine. I will say, though, that until you get rid of the creeps that hang out around there trying to take advantage of people, it will never ever be successful.
What might work? An International market. We like to call ourselves an International City, yet we appear less international to visitors than many other major cities due to a lack of distinct areas inside the City limits that have an International feel to them. Telling visitors to "drive a few miles up Buford Highway" to get an international flavor isn't exactly world class. I would propose that Underground leases space to vendors of more mid to higher range merchandise from a variety of ethnic backgrounds. Sections of Underground could be themed... a South American area, African area, Asian area, etc. It could literally be a "world market" type of facility. Or, since Mayor Reed has a hair up his rear about buddying up with China lately, why not make Underground Atlanta's official "China Town"? Offer incentives for Chinese businesses to relocate into it, change the look, etc?
Just a thought.
I love this idea...from both a tourist and local perspective.
So why wouldn't the whole underground just go the way of the old buckhead nightlife area and redevelop it. Get rid of the underground name (by the way, just the name gives the impression of being seedy, doesn't it?) and give it some cutesy name like atlantic station, get rid of all the mall-like shops and kiosks and entice certain new ones to come in that cater to the residents and office tenants/workers. Like a market or two, some delis and coffee shops and some restaurants a couple of hotels. Maybe some dry cleaners, gyms, daycare or those school thingies. Link it up to other desirable areas by subway.
Mainly, I think, because I'm not sure there's the political will on the city's side or a sufficiently long-term vision on the private side to renegotiate everything about the city's extremely long-term deal with the developers. There's a ton of money invested there already that both the city and private management would have to write off if they were to clear everything out and scale it back to something supportable along the lines you suggest. Would the city continue to subsidize Underground to the tune of $7-$8 million per year if the prospect (however remote) of it drawing additional tourism-related revenue and causing tourism-related economic development disappeared? Don't know, but I suspect not.
Any plan along those lines presumes that there's a sufficiently large market to support it -- this isn't something that can organically grow and develop from a small base and build up. It's a big chunk of downtown, and has a reputation problem. That reputation problem will only get worse if there are a handful of small, attractive locally oriented businesses surrounded by dozens of empty storefronts and essentially no traffic. There's really two alternatives, neither very promising: 1) turn over every lease in the place and focus on getting resident-oriented businesses in place -- and somehow manage to ensure that most of them stay afloat for the 12-24 months it takes to change the perception among locals that Underground is for tourists (and badly informed tourists at that), or 2) clear out everything and let the locally oriented businesses move in gradually as the market develops, meaning most of the area remains a ghost town for however long that takes.
If you were starting from scratch, with nothing built and no existing public perception, you could build small to start and grow organically, but that's not an option in this case for lots of reasons -- among them the fact that there's all that existing investment in those assets that the investors (the city included) want to see some return on, rather than just giving up and tearing them down.
For Underground, even under another name, to turn around, it's got to hit hard, strong, and fast. There need to be at least a handful of true destination establishments -- whether they're new restaurants from established foodie heroes locally, or a new Atlanta outpost for a famous chef from elsewhere, or a cultural/social venue that draws people in, etc., supported by a strong contingent of smaller establishments that catch the fancy of those who are drawn in by the bigger stuff and give them reasons to keep coming back. The models for Underground were other Rouse developments like Faneuil Hall Marketplace in Boston and South Street Seaport in NYC, where a location with local historical significance was redeveloped as a tourist destination. Faneuil Hall Marketplace seems to keep going strong (not least because it's much better integrated into the surrounding area and other cultural/historical/commercial assets), but General Growth Properties (the current owner of all the Rouse assets) wants to tear down South Street Seaport and redevelop it focused on local residents. But note that "tear it down" bit -- there's an acknowledgment that you can't get there from where South Street Seaport is now, and the situation's much the same at Underground, except that if anything the howls of protest about eviscerating what little bit of history remains in downtown Atlanta will be even louder than in NYC.
Of course, the point of my first post was that "hitting hard, strong, and fast" was exactly what Rouse did with Underground in the late 1980s, and whatever momentum it enjoyed was pretty much exhausted by a decade later, and I haven't yet seen a compelling story about what would be different this time around.
Keep in mind, too, that the redevelopment of Buckhead isn't a success story yet. It's mostly still an idea and rosy projections, much like those attendant on the redevelopment of Underground Atlanta in the mid-eighties.
As I said before, I'd turn it over to GSU to redevelop like GT did with Tech Square, but I'd put in a lot more dorms and make it more the focal point of GSU's social activities. Tech Square is good but still is a bit sterile. A GSU "Underground" could cater to college night life as in other "college towns". I mean if GSU is going for FBS status, they probably could use a tailgate/party area. I think the students would create the right kind of atmosphere to create a mini-college town in the middle of Atlanta which would be more inviting to tourists and other Atlantans.
There is also a theory going around that Underground was doing fine until it was set afire during the Rodney King riots in 1992. I was very young at the time, so I cannot confirm how much damage that event did to Underground's reputation among suburbanites. However, via the sometimes-suspect Wikipedia page:
Quote:
[O]n April 30, 1992, in the wake of the Rodney King trial verdict, the area was severely damaged by rioters who smashed the windows of stores and restaurants. The following month saw a 40% decline in sales.
Nightlife district is probably a good way to go, but understanding that it will probably never be a "real" nightlife district like Buckhead was or midtown is. Instead, go for kind of the "safe" touristy nightlife kind of vibe. Places like Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville, Pat O'Brien's, Fat Tuesday's, and things like that. Sure, people from town will rarely go, but something that feels fun but safe for tourists. Think places like Citiwalk at Universal Studios in Orlando or The Grove in Los Angeles...even Pier Park in good old Panama City Beach. I'm not saying we can't also have some local flavor, an Atkins Park or local nightclub would be great additions.
Which is exactly what Kenny's Alley was intended to be when Underground reopened in 1989 (not 88, as I said earlier). And it was that for a short while. Fat Tuesday's (Mardi Gras-themed frozen margaritas) and a handful of live music venues. Banks and Shane's. Dante's Down The Hatch for the traditional local flavor, etc. If Dante Stephensen couldn't make a go of it in that location, given his history and the great memories so many Atlantans had of DDTH from the first incarnation of Underground, I doubt anyone can.
Unless . . . the main difference between now and downtown pre-1996 is that there are a lot more people there at all hours than there used to be. Georgia State was strictly a commuter school at the time. There was essentially no residential property in the core of downtown. That's changed a lot, but as I've said I'm not sure it's yet reached the critical mass necessary to sustain an Underground re-positioned as the main agora for intown residents. And I doubt that either O'Leary or the city has the patience to accept revenues dramatically below what they have historically expected from that area for an extended period while a more organic turnaround happens as the market potential for the area grows. Nor is there the stomach for wiping the slate clean and starting over. I just don't see how you can get there from here.
As I said before, I'd turn it over to GSU to redevelop like GT did with Tech Square, but I'd put in a lot more dorms and make it more the focal point of GSU's social activities. Tech Square is good but still is a bit sterile. A GSU "Underground" could cater to college night life as in other "college towns". I mean if GSU is going for FBS status, they probably could use a tailgate/party area. I think the students would create the right kind of atmosphere to create a mini-college town in the middle of Atlanta which would be more inviting to tourists and other Atlantans.
I'm not so sure a "party area" is a good idea, nor could it be sustained. However, Tech Square is not a party area and seems to be doing just fine, so I think that is the correct model. There is certainly room for dorms on the block of wasted space that is bounded by Peachtree/Pryor/Wall/Alabama streets. I would suggest to whoever does do the renovation that they remove the mall-ish, dated exterior facades added by Rouse and restore the area's grittiness and historic character.
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