Underground Atlanta tries to bounce back (Marietta: 2013, neighborhoods, college)

[StAubin]

Is there a way we could combine GSU, International Market, and an arts district?

[rackensack]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I think most of the people complaining about Underground in this thread probably haven't ever been there, or haven't visited in the last decade.
I visited Underground in 2006 as a tourist, before I moved to Atlanta. It seemed like a nice little historic tourist attraction right in the heart of downtown. It wasn't until after I moved to Atlanta the following year that I learned of the negative perception that many suburbanites have of Underground.

It is a "nice little historic tourist attraction", and more could be done with that aspect of it. A satellite location of the Atlanta History Center could provide a reason for both locals and tourists to visit. Tying together Underground, the Freight Depot, and the abandoned Coke museum into an attraction focused on the history and future of transportation as Atlanta's signature industry, past, present and future, could work well if done right -- a partnership with the Southeastern Railroad Museum in Duluth could help, and certainly there are potential corporate sponsors/partners in Delta, Norfolk Southern and/or CSX, UPS, etc. Devote the lower-level space between the MARTA station and the plaza outside the Freight Depot and Coke museum to that, move the majority of the retail up to street level, refocus Kenny's Alley on restaurants rather than bars/clubs, and redevelop someplace adjacent or close by as the locus of the bar/club scene. Completely spitballing here, and haven't really thought through all of that, but it's a possible scenario that might be worth investigating.

The problem right now is that that "nice little historic tourist attraction" is joined at the hip to a struggling suburban mall with a tenant mix that pretty much mirrors O'Leary's other managed properties like North Dekalb Mall or Greenbriar Mall. And does anyone travel to those malls if they're not the closest option for them? Doubt it -- I used to go to North Dekalb a fair amount when I lived in the Emory area and to some extent when I lived in Tucker, but there was less reason to come back every time I visited.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by rackensack

No, the bonds mature in 2016, and as of last year the interest was costing the city ~$8 million per year.

Ouch! That's a ton of money for a city our size, and it could really make a difference.

That's about the same amount we'll get in unrestricted TIA money (if it passes), so maybe we can consider it a wash.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Ouch! That's a ton of money for a city our size, and it could really make a difference.

That's about the same amount we'll get in unrestricted TIA money (if it passes), so maybe we can consider it a wash.

Well don't get too down on the expenditure.

In the early years we were desperately looking for attractions for our huge convention industry we were building up.

Which is one thing I am surprised from this whole discussion. Everyone is only looking at this from a Metro Atlantans perspective as a resident.

Many of the bars, restaurants, and shops were targeted as a place people would visit once in a blue moon. It was perfect for people in town for conventions.

Many of the better shops closed down, when the management had a hard time filling vacancies they allowed some lower income general stores move in that would not be appealing to a tourist at all.

With that said...

Our convention industry has done well. We have attracted new museums, restaurants, and entertainment options for tourists... much of it was privately created (albeit much of it through non-profit donations).

In many ways ... at least in these respects Underground Atlanta has economically served its original purpose.

However, it is hard to monetize how valuable Underground was during the 80s and 90s at helping the convention industry, so I won't go as far as make the argument it pays for itself. Just a simple reminder... our convention industry generated money and we spent that money trying to foster it. This is partly how we did that.

Atlanta's hospitality industry is around $10-11 billion per year. This brings in alot of taxes, which largely pays for helping foster that industry (I think I read somewhere $3billion was directly responsible from conventions... but for the life of me I can't find that source and make sure I'm not getting that wrong) . $8 million by itself isn't nessecarily that bad, however with our new developments I am starting to think UA is functionally obsolete for this particular purpose, since so many people love Centennial park, the aquarium, and Coke museum.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

with our new developments I am starting to think UA is functionally obsolete for this particular purpose, since so many people love Centennial park, the aquarium, and Coke museum.

Plus street level activity in the hotel district around Peachtree Street is showing signs of life. Underground doesn't seem relevant anymore.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Plus street level activity in the hotel district around Peachtree Street is showing signs of life. Underground doesn't seem relevant anymore.

One of the problems I have with this situation is a large part of the problem isn't Underground itself. It is all of downtown Atlanta at five points leading south.

Most things that aren't government buildings aren't doing well. There is lots of low-end shopping and abandoned and dilapidated buildings.

Something has to be a catalyst to make this area desirable again. The more and more I study the congestion maps, traffic flow, and the ARC thematic maps on education/employee base the more I realize the area isn't accessible from traffic to the potential employee pool big businesses want.

The same forces in action that make our metro grow north are the same forces that are crippling the southern end where transportation accessibility to the north is at it's weakest. If anything the airport area is much better off, since it is at least accessible to more people driving south on both sides of I-285. That area can also collect people from the Southern end of downtown almost as well as the southern end of Downtown can, since the reverse commute there is next to nothing.

That is what I like about the greenline plan and the plans for a multi-modal station, particularly for commuter rail. It changes those commuting dynamics harming what should be premium land and brings better property values to the city.

but here is the problem I have reflecting on the situation. To me Underground Atlanta is a historical site worth saving. I even think it could make it as a theme mall, but the problem is the surrounding area... not necessarily the mall itself. (sure it could use a small facelift when money comes back to the area)

I don't want to abandon it at all, but I don't think we can spend much money on it and save it either.

To me ... I feel like UA just has to wait it out, while we work on getting all of the southern part of downtown desirable again...

but if this premise is correct...

should we take a slightly greater loss and not have shoe and cheap clothes stores to keep from making it low-end shopping destination (and driving off would be tourist). In doing so we could downsize the amount of retail space and perhaps... rent out (for cheap) higher-creativity art studios.

One one hand.. it means the yearly expense goes up, but it would foster the social character of the area for when things get better.

Or perhaps we need to say that will be in the future when things are better. Maybe we take any money we can get from anything that can move goods of any kind (kind of the status quo, though).


Anyways....

Side note... I just really want Cafe Du Monde to come back to town...anywhere else. While we are at it... Lets make a French/New Orleans quarter (or block or group of blocks) and bring in a Pat O'Briens! I would looove that and I'm sure tourist would too!

[cqholt]

I visited Underground in 2006 as a tourist, before I moved to Atlanta. It seemed like a nice little historic tourist attraction right in the heart of downtown. It wasn't until after I moved to Atlanta the following year that I learned of the negative perception that many suburbanites have of Underground.

I always take visitors to Underground on the first stop to downtown. Its conveniently located at Five Points Station and the view from walking up the stairs towards Woodruff Park is great. They seem to enjoy it, since its something that all tourist hear about Atlanta.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I always take visitors to Underground on the first stop to downtown. Its conveniently located at Five Points Station and the view from walking up the stairs towards Woodruff Park is great. They seem to enjoy it, since its something that all tourist hear about Atlanta.

To me, that area looks dirty and rundown. Centennial Park is lightyears ahead in terms of giving a positive impression of Atlanta.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

To me, that area looks dirty and rundown. Centennial Park is lightyears ahead in terms of giving a positive impression of Atlanta.

I'd also add you can see clear differences in the retail and restaurants that have changed over the years, since it was redeveloped.

It has gone from mostly tourist and theme shops, a localized food court for the 9-5'rs, a theme restaurant/bar area for conventioners, high end restaurants (mostly unique) to a place with lower rents more day-to-day clothes/show sells and a bit less themed/touristy shops. Most of the nicer restaurants have left. More chain, but still specialized, have come in (like johny rockets). The bars are also not attracting the convention traffic it use to and they are making interesting rules/access fees to deter others.

Don't get me wrong. I loved visiting underground as a kid. I'll still show it to people. I still think it is an important part of our city, but it is not as nice as it use to be and it struggling to attract as many people or the money it use to and was originally planned for, which is also why it isn't paying for itself.

[Fly!Metro]

City to tackle the Underground dilemma again | www.ajc.com

could work out.