Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm as liberal as they come, but even I support the drug-testing mandate as long as one of the governor's cronies is NOT profiting from it. But that's another topic.
My concern is that criminality and welfare culture go HAND IN HAND way too often. You can drive down any block where the city or the state has low-income housing. The children all have trendy clothes, iPhones and more often than not, tend to be obese (they're not starving for food).
How are they affording these items on 7k per year or whatever the welfare payout is? It's either two ways: they outright steal the clothes, iPhones, etc (which is sometimes the case), or supplemental income through drug trafficking is the source of most of their cashflow. In fact it's probably more than just supplemental.
Way too often the mothers and the grandmothers may run these households and hold down the minimum wage jobs, but if you drive down the street during the day or night, its the males with their $500 jeans and sportswear just hanging out day after day after day. They're obviously not working a legitimate job that would allow this sort of discretionary income to afford luxuries AND have the right to live in subsidized housing. This culture of criminality is just accepted by that community, and the families keep getting the checks, the subsidized housing, while allowing the cash to flow in illicitly from one generation to the next.
This culture of welfare is one of the stickiest issues for some of us liberals. I may be an atheist, support gay rights and abortion rights, and would love to stick it to the 1% who pay too few taxes. I will vote for Obama again in 2012 for a multitude of reasons both economic and social.
But I do not support this generational welfare mentality and how it sucks the life out of too many African American communities as well as the surrounding cities and towns with the violence it begets and the ignorance it fosters.
I think the bigger issue is that they need to limit what people can get with their food stamps.
Stood behind someone using their food stamp card yesterday to buy three large Red Bulls (these run over $4.00 each) potato chips, and candy in the convenience store. Feeding our hungry and needy is one thing but come on...
I do not support this generational welfare mentality and how it sucks the life out of too many African American communities as well as the surrounding cities and towns with the violence it begets and the ignorance it fosters.]
I'm not sure what generational welfare mentality you're talking about. There is now, and has been a four year LIFETIME limit on the amount of time a person can receive welfare. As for the young thugs hanging around low income housing, well that can be blamed on the Housing Authority. The laws have been on the books for more than fifteen years to evict tenants who have those kind of people living in, or even visiting their units. This even includes a woman's children. If the child is arrested or drops out if school she can be evicted. Some agencies are simply more stringent about enforcing it. In Huntsville they were very strict and the subsidized housing communities were some of the safest areas in town. Mainly old people and women with small children. In all my years working there I never had to remove a child from low income housing. I'm not sure why Atlanta is not enforcing federal law. Apparently the procedure is not particularly onerous. I've seen it done in a matter of weeks.
As for obesity, i'm not sure why I keep having to explain what simple common sense should tell anyone. It is very difficult, I would say darned near impossible to buy healthy food with a limited income. First, most of these areas are "food deserts" where there are no grocery stores for miles. To get there you either have to take a bus, or a very expensive taxi. And you're unlikely to shop more than once or twice a month. What goes bad very quickly? Fresh produce. Even frozen is very difficult to transport and cans are heavy. Further, veggies aren't particularly filling and aren't calorie dense. When you don't have much money you tend to look for food that's going to fill bellies for the least amount of money. These are typically not the healthiest options in the store. You don't have to believe me just google "food deserts." There's been a lot of media coverage of the issue lately. I found out about it when I stopped at a rare grocery store in a low income neighborhood. This wasn't some local Mom & Pop, but part of a major Alabama chain. I just needed milk and fruit. The store was disgusting. The fruit was half rotten and the milk was past its expiration date. And this wasn't just one or two, but every single bottle.
Speaking further on obesity, in many neighborhoods don't go outside because it's unsafe. Factor all that in, and yeah, you get fat kids.
As for people buying Red Bull with an EBT card, each state sets the parameters of what can be bought under the auspices of the Department of Agriculture. I think there was an effort to remove soda because it's unhealthy, but the effort was beaten back by the high fructose corn syrup makers. You might want to bring this issue up eith your local congressman, who I guarantee is getting money from the corn lobby. These programs are a ersatz farm subsidy. And this country is set up to subsidize large farms, especially corn and dairy, not the local guy down the street selling broccoli and kale. WIC recipients typically receive less than $10 a month in produce, while getting a ton of corn based cereal and dairy products. I don't have to tell you how fattening that is, but it certainly fattens the wallets of Big Agriculture.
I'm as liberal as they come, but even I support the drug-testing mandate as long as one of the governor's cronies is NOT profiting from it. But that's another topic.
My concern is that criminality and welfare culture go HAND IN HAND way too often. You can drive down any block where the city or the state has low-income housing. The children all have trendy clothes, iPhones and more often than not, tend to be obese (they're not starving for food).
How are they affording these items on 7k per year or whatever the welfare payout is? It's either two ways: they outright steal the clothes, iPhones, etc (which is sometimes the case), or supplemental income through drug trafficking is the source of most of their cashflow. In fact it's probably more than just supplemental.
Way too often the mothers and the grandmothers may run these households and hold down the minimum wage jobs, but if you drive down the street during the day or night, its the males with their $500 jeans and sportswear just hanging out day after day after day. They're obviously not working a legitimate job that would allow this sort of discretionary income to afford luxuries AND have the right to live in subsidized housing. This culture of criminality is just accepted by that community, and the families keep getting the checks, the subsidized housing, while allowing the cash to flow in illicitly from one generation to the next.
This culture of welfare is one of the stickiest issues for some of us liberals. I may be an atheist, support gay rights and abortion rights, and would love to stick it to the 1% who pay too few taxes. I will vote for Obama again in 2012 for a multitude of reasons both economic and social.
But I do not support this generational welfare mentality and how it sucks the life out of too many African American communities as well as the surrounding cities and towns with the violence it begets and the ignorance it fosters.
Are you sure about that? I live near Boulevard and I've never seen kids wearing trendy clothes and carrying iPhones. If you look closely you will see that most folks carry phones with prepaid plans and wear either fake designer clothes, or clothes of lesser quality.
You also make the false assumption that low income = welfare - discounting the fact that the vast majority of people in low income areas are working poor. Even when you look at food stamp recipients - the vast majority of them work as well.
My concern is that criminality and welfare culture go HAND IN HAND way too often. You can drive down any block where the city or the state has low-income housing. The children all have trendy clothes, iPhones and more often than not, tend to be obese (they're not starving for food).
How are they affording these items on 7k per year or whatever the welfare payout is? It's either two ways: they outright steal the clothes, iPhones, etc (which is sometimes the case), or supplemental income through drug trafficking is the source of most of their cashflow. In fact it's probably more than just supplemental.
IMO, they are just going into debt in order to show off. Agreed they need jobs, but they can not get a good job since they have no skills. Ideally, they need apprenticeships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanamom
I think the bigger issue is that they need to limit what people can get with their food stamps.
Stood behind someone using their food stamp card yesterday to buy three large Red Bulls (these run over $4.00 each) potato chips, and candy in the convenience store. Feeding our hungry and needy is one thing but come on...
Agreed. Once saw a lady using food stamps and then driving off in a Chevy Suburban. I think that there is a sizable minority in the middle class who are abusing the welfare system. Anyone else think so?
IMO, they are just going into debt in order to show off. Agreed they need jobs, but they can not get a good job since they have no skills. Ideally, they need apprenticeships.
Agreed. Once saw a lady using food stamps and then driving off in a Chevy Suburban. I think that there is a sizable minority in the middle class who are abusing the welfare system. Anyone else think so?
No. That woman could've bought that Chevy Suburban before going on food stamps.
Is there abuse that goes on? Probably. Is it large scale? Hell no. I'm not jealous of people on food stamps or public assistance, nor do I aspire to be on public assistance. I doubt that the vast majority of people on public assistance are content with where they are in their lives.
I'm not sure what generational welfare mentality you're talking about. There is now, and has been a four year LIFETIME limit on the amount of time a person can receive welfare. As for the young thugs hanging around low income housing, well that can be blamed on the Housing Authority. The laws have been on the books for more than fifteen years to evict tenants who have those kind of people living in, or even visiting their units. This even includes a woman's children. If the child is arrested or drops out if school she can be evicted. Some agencies are simply more stringent about enforcing it. In Huntsville they were very strict and the subsidized housing communities were some of the safest areas in town. Mainly old people and women with small children. In all my years working there I never had to remove a child from low income housing. I'm not sure why Atlanta is not enforcing federal law. Apparently the procedure is not particularly onerous. I've seen it done in a matter of weeks.
I am not sure if you are black or not but what he says about "welfair mentality" of a small subset of blacks is true. I don't care if there are laws against it but many black go GENERATIONS of living off public assistance and/or public housing. This isn't a myth and maybe there are laws against it but it DOES happend for a many black families in housing projects. What it is what is should be are two different things.
I'm as liberal as they come, but even I support the drug-testing mandate as long as one of the governor's cronies is NOT profiting from it. But that's another topic.
My concern is that criminality and welfare culture go HAND IN HAND way too often. You can drive down any block where the city or the state has low-income housing. The children all have trendy clothes, iPhones and more often than not, tend to be obese (they're not starving for food).
How are they affording these items on 7k per year or whatever the welfare payout is? It's either two ways: they outright steal the clothes, iPhones, etc (which is sometimes the case), or supplemental income through drug trafficking is the source of most of their cashflow. In fact it's probably more than just supplemental.
Way too often the mothers and the grandmothers may run these households and hold down the minimum wage jobs, but if you drive down the street during the day or night, its the males with their $500 jeans and sportswear just hanging out day after day after day. They're obviously not working a legitimate job that would allow this sort of discretionary income to afford luxuries AND have the right to live in subsidized housing. This culture of criminality is just accepted by that community, and the families keep getting the checks, the subsidized housing, while allowing the cash to flow in illicitly from one generation to the next.
This culture of welfare is one of the stickiest issues for some of us liberals. I may be an atheist, support gay rights and abortion rights, and would love to stick it to the 1% who pay too few taxes. I will vote for Obama again in 2012 for a multitude of reasons both economic and social.
But I do not support this generational welfare mentality and how it sucks the life out of too many African American communities as well as the surrounding cities and towns with the violence it begets and the ignorance it fosters.
You have some valid points, but I don't see what any of this has to do with drug testing for public assistance benefits. As I've said before and at least one other has stated here, the drugs most likely to be consumed by these folks are the same as those likely to be consumed by those not on public assistance: the legal kind, nicotine and alcohol. This law has been a proven failure and a waste of taxpayer dollars in the states that have implemented it. If states want to further reform the system, then do that. But stunts like this new law is nothing more than political gamesmanship for the purpose of scoring quick political points and it's especially hypocritical coming from so-called small government conservatives.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
