I hate Marta's 24 minute off peak times

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by cqholt

That's why I said the entire system, including buses. I use MARTA everyday and never use my car. I can sympathize with you on dense-urban development. I would love for MARTA to be accepted in the suburbs and become the system that it was envisioned to become, but its exactly like you say about people wanting cheap, low-density, car-dependent development in Atlanta. There are those that do want the dense, urban lifestyle and we congregate intown along MARTA lines.

To be honest, 500,000 for a total system of bus and rail combined is absolutely horrible. That is not a lot of ridership and is not going to allow for high frequency.

What you are saying is right along with what I have been saying. There is definely an urban option in Midtown and Downtown Atlanta but, the vast majority of the region is not that way which is definely counter productive to urban amenities and land use planning. It's the reason expanding Marta is so difficult also because many of the neighborhoods are already built around Atlanta and they don't have the density to warrant heavy rail expansion. That is why I believe the streetcar is a better option for Atlanta and the belt line which is not really designed for moving the region per say but more so as an economic driver and park rehabilitation zone around the city. It's pretty hard to draw comparisons between Atlanta's suburbs and DC's suburbs because of these factors and that gap will widen larger than ever now that DC suburbs are becoming cities in their own right. It should send many people your way who prefer a low density, low cost of living, and slower family oriented lifestyle though.

[cqholt]

To be honest, 500,000 for a total system of bus and rail combined is absolutely horrible. That is not a lot of ridership and is not going to allow for high frequency.

Well compared to NYC, Chicago, and DC its not, but we do have higher ridership than Houston, 4th largest city in US; Phoenix, 6th largest city in US. Atlanta compares well to other Sunbelt cities that were built around the car. We never try to compare ourselves to older cities that were developed before the popularity of the car.

[testa50]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Marta's rail system had 225,300 average daily riders in Q4 2011. You can go to the American Public Transportation Association for all ridership stats in all 4 quarters of every year for every system in the nation broken down by heavyrail, lightrail, commuter rail, and streets cars. They have bus ridership as well.

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

Interesting data.

I'm dismayed to see a 5.5% decline in MARTA ridership, following a 2.5% decline compared to Q4 2009. The massive service cuts in September 2010, followed by a fare increase in October 2011, are taking their toll--my monthly pass went up from $68 to $95, a pretty huge jump, and service has diminished considerably.

If I had a car, I would potentially just say ********** and not deal with MARTA. Since I am able to go without a car entirely, it's still overwhelmingly better to take MARTA as opposed to buying/operating a car. But for those who must own a car and opt to take MARTA sometimes to save money, a lot of that incentive just went away. I would argue this latter group--those who must own a car but sometimes choose to take MARTA instead--is far larger than my group, who can do without a car.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Well compared to NYC, Chicago, and DC its not, but we do have higher ridership than Houston, 4th largest city in US; Phoenix, 6th largest city in US. Atlanta compares well to other Sunbelt cities that were built around the car. We never try to compare ourselves to older cities that were developed before the popularity of the car.

That is true but I don't think Atlanta should be lumped in with the other sunbelt cities. Atlanta has a heavy rail system and those cities do not. Also, population is not a good indicator for comparisons in urban infrastructure. Population density is the only factor that can be used for this comparison. Population density is what drives the implementation or doesn't drive the implementation of urban infrastructure like heavy rail. Houston has annexed such a huge part of the metro area that it's made the population high. Phoenix is the same way. The density is very low in both cities though. I think Atlanta has a built in advantage over other sunbelt cities because of Marta. When the city builds up the area's around the Marta stations, Atlanta will be light years ahead of Houston and Phoneix.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

One disadvantage the suburbs of Atlanta have is the growth is being fueled by people who want a cheaper less urban lifestyle. That is not conducive to denser urban living and a car free lifestyle in the suburbs. Many people moving to the suburbs in Atlanta don't desire a car free lifestyle or multi-family living which will make it hard to accomplish the goals I'm sure many urbanites have in Atlanta.
Atlanta offers a better balance of suburban and urban with the suburbs being really suburban and downtown and midtown offering an urban option as well.

I think that is a great point. Many people try to concentrate so much on density like it is the right thing for all metro areas in the US. My favorite aspect of Atlanta is that I live on 10 acres of beautiful land, but it only takes 30-45 minutes to get downtown. For me, that can't be beat.

Land, personal space, privacy... I think that has got to be one of the biggest factors that attract people to Atlanta. The very close mix of urban/suburban/rural is something that should be treasured here.

[Stars&StripesForever]

Originally Posted by cqholt

People live south, east, and west of Five Points. What about the people working at those events? They gotta get home too, not everybody lives north.

Every man should give up their up seat to women, children, and elderly.

Why should a man give up his seat to able-bodied women? I understand the handicapped and, perhaps, the elderly. Maybe even children, too, considering the nature of children having less balance, but women?

[cqholt]

Why should a man give up his seat to able-bodied women?

Because it is the gentleman thing to do. Remember Titanic, women and children first? You wanna look like an butthole in front on all those people on MARTA do you?

[DTL3000]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Because it is the gentleman thing to do. Remember Titanic, women and children first? You wanna look like an butthole in front on all those people on MARTA do you?

The Titanic was a bit before the feminist movement...

Nobody can outdo Marta Girl when looking like an ass on MARTA.

[Stars&StripesForever]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Because it is the gentleman thing to do. Remember Titanic, women and children first? You wanna look like an butthole in front on all those people on MARTA do you?

I don't see it like that. An able-bodied woman is none-the-weaker in standing than a man.