Roswell East-Stopping traffic or sophistication? (Atlanta, Dunwoody: apartments, houses, neighborhoods)

[yeah-yo]

Why is it that many people in Roswell are fighting the Roswell East development? It will be a highly sophisticated mixed-use, live-work-play area with lots of green space. Some say because of traffic, but the developer is paying for large road improvements. Also, he has the zoning for housing, he just needs the commercial zoning. So there will be more traffic anyway. just not the cafes, walkways, and fountains etc. I think they fear sophistication and a change from their traditional lives. Same with opposing MARTA expansion. I am curious to hear your opinions.

[wxjay]

It might be the idea of losing the "charm" of the city to this huge new sprawl of a development. (Just a thought since I don't live there).

[spacelord75]

I have had limited exposure to the plan, but my biggest fears when I hear about this is:

1 - Even MORE high density housing, which is not exactly needed with the current surplus in Atlanta in general

2 - Traffic is already kind of horrific around there, especially on Roswell Rd. trying to get over the river in the afternoons - can't really be fixed without adding another bridge or expanding

3 - While I personally enjoy the mixed use concept, and always love when a new bar/restaurant opens, I'm guessing many of the ones that would populate this one (like most others) will be a chain of some kind, which is not always that great.

4 - Roswell has really turned into a nice little downtown area, and I can see why people don't want to tamper with it by having a monstrosity mega-dev't nearby.

I do not live in Roswell, but just south in Dunwoody, so it will not immediately impact me BUT I just can't understand how they intend to fill all the housing space. Supply is so high right now. Nothing is more depressing than a big mixed-use dev't that is 50% empty of residents and, thus, shops/restaurants!

[yeah-yo]

Well, it is not really a charm issue or impact on the downtown, because it is not in that part of Roswell. And they will have more traffic anyway, because it WILL be developed. The question is whether to allow commercial and residential, or just residential. So either way you have more traffic.

So it must be something against strolling through hip urban areas, with lots of green space. I really don't understand it. But I think the answer would explain alot about the lack of good development in North Fulton, such as the fight against MARTA.

[jxu66]

"But I think the answer would explain alot about the lack of good development in North Fulton, such as the fight against MARTA."

North Fulton people support MARTA expansion. But there is no funding for that expansion (unless you support additional increase tax). MARTA does not have money for expansion. Also, Mayor Franklin wants to fund Beltline project. That's why there is always a big fight between South Fulton vs North Fulton. Also, state GDOT is underfunded by 7 billion dollars.

Also, from what I read (I could be wrong), the developer is only funding for traffic study, not the building the road (such as expansion of GA400 South line). There was a story on ajc which stated that city of Roswell tries to get 15 millions from GDOT, which means to get rid of other projects. That's very difficult to do.

Unless the developer is planning to build all the roads (expansion of Holocomb bridge and expansion of GA400), it is unlikely city of Roswell folks will support the project.

[rackensack]

Roswell East in the form originally proposed by Charlie Brown is a dead letter, so no one's actually opposing it right now because there's nothing to oppose. There was plenty not to like about it, but in principle I don't think the type of development that was proposed is wrong. People behaved as if the choice was between nothing and Roswell East, when in reality the choice was between Roswell East and something based on the current zoning, which likely would, as Mr. Brown suggested, be worse from a traffic/congestion/quality of life standpoint.

It always amazes me to see people complain about sprawl and density in the same breath -- they're not the same thing, and if you're going to have growth, you're pretty much going to get one or the other: you either grow vertically, or you grow horizontally. And in many respects, density is (to my mind) preferable, when the infrastructure is there to support it. The biggest problem I had with Roswell East was that I'm not clear that the necessary infrastructure is in place in Roswell, or that it could (or should) be built by the developer. Dense cities work well when all (or at least most) of the goods and services people need are readily accessible within walking distance or at least are accessible by public transport or a reasonably inexpensive cab ride. Roswell East itself might well have been designed to facilitate pedestrian travel, but unless the surrounding area is adapted as well, and unless it's better served by public transportation than it currently is, it'd end up being just another kind of semi-isolated office park pod with apartments and some houses.

The congestion around Holcomb Bridge and GA 400 is only going to get worse no matter what happens. Most information I've seen suggests that even if right-of-way acquisition started today it'd be ten years before any construction projects could be completed -- possibly more like twenty. The traffic studies for Roswell East suggested (keeping in mind that they were paid for by the developer) that it would result in a smaller increase in congestion than doing nothing or than allowable development options under current zoning. Reducing congestion isn't even on the table. I'm not saying that anything Charlie Brown might possibly build is better than anything that could be built under the current zoning, but the odds are that it would be.

I do find it amusing that people drag the "character of historic Roswell" bit into this discussion, however, since the area bounded by Riverside, Old Alabama, Holcomb Bridge, and 400 has about as little "historic character" as you can imagine. There's a major freeway and about 3 miles of neighborhoods between "historic Roswell" and this proposed development. Sure, any place right on the river has some history to it, but really what Brown proposed was simply replacing a late 1970s/early 1980s suburban development model with an early 21st century one. May or not have been better, but it's different and that's enough to trigger opposition.

Because, when you get down to it, that's what people do -- oppose things. Unless they have an economic interest being served by a proposed change, they'll almost always oppose it. When you buy a property, you're in a sense buying the conditions of the surrounding area as well -- but you don't get any property rights to anything except your property, and you have no guarantee that the surroundings won't change. Zoning laws attempt to introduce a bit more stability and predictability, but they also lead to people assuming that they can stop anything they don't like, just because they don't like it or it will change the character of the area. But the reality is that areas change over time. American society in particular is based on the idea of growth and change, of pulling up stakes and moving on, so it's inevitable that change happens more quickly here than in most other, more established societies.

[jxu66]

Roswell East: Pricey change at Holcomb Bridge interchange may be hard to fund

[yeah-yo]

jxu66-Well he has the zoning rights to add a typical suburban development, so one way or another the traffic worsens. And I know a lot of "Miltonians" who have a creepy crazy-eyed hatred of MARTA.

rackensack-I think you get what I am saying, It is more about being against change, than a rational calculation of cost/benefits. There is something irrational about this opposition. But, particularly I think they dislike this exact style of this design. For example, an office park/residential area would not have faced as much opposition in my opinion. The question is why do they fear sophistication?

[jxu66]

A lot of North Fultoners don't like MARTA because they pay a lot of taxes for MARTA and they don't get as much dollars in return. That's one of many big reasons behind North Fulton vs South Fulton fight. For instance, the bus service that goes through Northpoint mall was cut during MARTA downside in early 2000s but it is still not get service back.

I am not saying I agree with that view, but that's the reason.

Local leaders want more public transit

Also, I do believe that North Fulton/Gwinnett need to have a law that force developers to pay impact fees.

Sorry, I don't agree with your view that people are afraid of change. I tend to have the view that developers got too much of free ride due to the fact that politicians are "buddy and buddy" with developers. There are just way too much developments in North Fulton/Gwinnett, not too little.

[nrgpill]

No one is fearing sophistication. Everyone who is following this development is afraid of seeing another Atlantic Station with cheap stucco, slab sided materials erected overnight. Such project is not going to age well. Maybe we can erect a junior sized Millennium Gate while we're at it.

The bottom line is that the parcel in contention will get developed soon. The traffic issue is nothing new for a project of this magnitude.

Originally Posted by yeah-yo

jxu66-Well he has the zoning rights to add a typical suburban development, so one way or another the traffic worsens. And I know a lot of "Miltonians" who have a creepy crazy-eyed hatred of MARTA.

rackensack-I think you get what I am saying, It is more about being against change, than a rational calculation of cost/benefits. There is something irrational about this opposition. But, particularly I think they dislike this exact style of this design. For example, an office park/residential area would not have faced as much opposition in my opinion. The question is why do they fear sophistication?