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Old 05-06-2012, 12:57 PM
 
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But don't some buildings have parking that is not underground or a separate building, it's the first 7 or 8 floors of the actual condo building? So the lowest possible floor you can live on is 8 or whatever.

Seems like it doesn't add any to the cost save for making the building taller...unless it has to be built much stronger to support the weight of the building on top of it. It seems like a massive selling point, though, because residents can simply take an elevator up instead of having to walk to a deck and then take an elevator.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
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In order to keep the status quo in Atlanta of a cheap cost of housing, developer must cut cost where possible. To create an ideal urban space across the board, prices must rise. Eventually, one has to give way to the other. If people living in Atlanta want the best suited dynamic of urban buildings that front the street with underground parking, be ready to pay for it. Urbanity comes at a high price. Unfortunelty, that's the thing about density, you can't have density and a cheap cost of living, the two are oxymorons because of the price to build following urban specifications like underground parking.

Honestly, the best way is too cut parking back dramatically which saves costs. That is what many cities have done already or are trying to do. People can take the train, bike share, or zip car and it saves the developer money while keeping housing costs down. I don't think Atlanta is ready to talk about that yet. Maybe someday soon though.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:34 PM
 
31,997 posts, read 36,601,808 times
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Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
To create an ideal urban space across the board, prices must rise. Eventually, one has to give way to the other. If people living in Atlanta want the best suited dynamic of urban buildings that front the street with underground parking, be ready to pay for it. Urbanity comes at a high price. Unfortunelty, that's the thing about density, you can't have density and a cheap cost of living, the two are oxymorons because of the price to build following urban specifications like underground parking.
What's so all-fired important about "urban"? And why does there have to be only one style of urban? A lot of people prefer the lower cost of living and the ability to readily store and use an automobile at a reasonable cost.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
657 posts, read 1,500,527 times
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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
What's so all-fired important about "urban"? And why does there have to be only one style of urban? A lot of people prefer the lower cost of living and the ability to readily store and use an automobile at a reasonable cost.
Because some in the Atlanta forum are hard-pressed to inflate the perception of Atlanta's "urban core":

//www.city-data.com/forum/atlan...nta-urban.html
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:03 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 2,343,463 times
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Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
But don't some buildings have parking that is not underground or a separate building, it's the first 7 or 8 floors of the actual condo building? So the lowest possible floor you can live on is 8 or whatever.

Seems like it doesn't add any to the cost save for making the building taller...unless it has to be built much stronger to support the weight of the building on top of it. It seems like a massive selling point, though, because residents can simply take an elevator up instead of having to walk to a deck and then take an elevator.
That's every Novare building made until recently (minus the Atlantic which has its front on 17th St which is elevated several stories allowing the deck to be below the street. This new separated deck idea is probably Novare coming to the conclusion building for apts (which are a lower price point) a bit bigger footprint is a lot cheaper given land prices today vs. engineering to support a 20 story building on top of a building designed to support 500 x 3,000lb+ vehicles w/ the added fun of fire code dealing w/ sprinklers in case of vehicle fires.

Another tricky point of deck + building is you create a section of the building where people would have a view of only the deck. I think Skyhouse uses the grade to minimize this effect but many low/midrise apartments around wind up being built around 3 sides of outward facing apartments w/ a central garden/atrium and the deck consuming one side of the building.

Viewpoint is unusual in that it has 10 stories of parking deck. It actually has 2 units/floor from 4-10 where the people have separate entrances directly from the deck w/ a small vestibule. Looked at one but the idea of living 6-7 stories above Peachtree and having traffic 10ft from my front door was unappetizing. The tall/narrow nature(only about 1/2 of the block is used vs. Spire) of the building necessitates the deck height so the 1st 10 stories of the new building will be looking at one of 2 sides of Viewpoint's deck. The original 3 tower blueprint showed 3 almost identical towers w/a huge 10 story deck stretching from 6-7th st and a large pool/amenities deck between the 2 matching towers (similar to Metropolis).

On the retail front, I think Novare just has atrocious expectations of rent (and not much skill in finding tenants) and for whatever reason they didn't widen 6th/7th st to allow parking entrances. The 7th st Starbucks shows retail can thrive but given the dozens of cars duking it out to park there in the mornings, people are willing to constantly deal w/ tiny parking for the right tenant.

Overall, there are already 800+ residents living within a block. Hopefully adding another 300-400+ will make the area more viable for rentals(and not just another burger joint).

Renderings from '07 actually show no visible deck for the 2nd tower so maybe it's been their plan all along. Too bad the Five Guys took away the original scale model.


Original credit to SkyscraperPage:
ATLANTA | Viewpoint | 501 FT / 153 M | 36 FLOORS - Page 6 - SkyscraperPage Forum
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: ATL
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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
What's so all-fired important about "urban"? And why does there have to be only one style of urban? A lot of people prefer the lower cost of living and the ability to readily store and use an automobile at a reasonable cost.
People from other cities love our forum
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:06 PM
 
4,822 posts, read 6,060,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
In order to keep the status quo in Atlanta of a cheap cost of housing, developer must cut cost where possible. To create an ideal urban space across the board, prices must rise. Eventually, one has to give way to the other. If people living in Atlanta want the best suited dynamic of urban buildings that front the street with underground parking, be ready to pay for it. Urbanity comes at a high price. Unfortunelty, that's the thing about density, you can't have density and a cheap cost of living, the two are oxymorons because of the price to build following urban specifications like underground parking.

Honestly, the best way is too cut parking back dramatically which saves costs. That is what many cities have done already or are trying to do. People can take the train, bike share, or zip car and it saves the developer money while keeping housing costs down. I don't think Atlanta is ready to talk about that yet. Maybe someday soon though.
This partly true but prices go up because the lack of areas to build, in Atlanta that's not the case. That's the thing with places like LA it may not look like the northeast but it's still extremely pricey because LA is built out. Normally a city is force to build up with that the prices do too. There's just so many places around to infill in Atlanta that it wouldn't matter that much if Atlanta core does infill more, it's not out of necessity. There's no land scarcity to dive prices up.

Also there's other factors like taxes and etc.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,702 posts, read 15,631,271 times
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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
What's so all-fired important about "urban"? And why does there have to be only one style of urban? A lot of people prefer the lower cost of living and the ability to readily store and use an automobile at a reasonable cost.
Did I miss something? I'm responding to all the people on this board who were complaining about the parking garage and asking why it can't go underground. Did you forget what the last three pages were talking about? What I said is how the development world works. You guys were the ones talking about it. What's the problem? And, if you want things like underground parking in residential buildings, get ready to pay more and have a higher cost of living.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:56 PM
 
31,997 posts, read 36,601,808 times
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Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Did I miss something? I'm responding to all the people on this board who were complaining about the parking garage and asking why it can't go underground. Did you forget what the last three pages were talking about? What I said is how the development world works. You guys were the ones talking about it. What's the problem? And, if you want things like underground parking in residential buildings, get ready to pay more and have a higher cost of living.
Don't worry about it. Atlanta is coming along at its own pace and most people seem okay with it.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,702 posts, read 15,631,271 times
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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Don't worry about it. Atlanta is coming along at its own pace and most people seem okay with it.
Sounds good to me! There is nothing wrong with being different. I don't see why the select few who are greatly outnumbered complain about everything. Atlanta does not have to be a major dense city. Some people like space and as you said cars. There is nothing wrong with that. There are so many people that want Atlanta to be something its not like there is something wrong with the way it is. Atlanta was not designed to be dense and compact. Its ok to be different. People should stop trying to impose their former home on Atlanta. People take offense to people saying Atlanta isn't urban like being urban makes a city better than another. I don't understand why people can't be proud to not be densely built having people living on top of each other. There is a place for density and there is a place for a relaxed lower density life. Some people can't accept what Atlanta is for some reason though. I chime in for consultation but I by no means think Atlanta needs to be like NYC, DC, or Chicago etc. Atlanta is fine the way it is.

Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-07-2012 at 12:07 AM..
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