Why the TSPLOST is important for Atlanta business (schools, income)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Atlanta is actually the one playing catch up [on parks].

No kidding. Most of the city's major parks rely on private funding. In many parts of Atlanta, if you want something like new playground equipment for your park, you have to go out and raise the money. Likewise if you want to clean out weeds and kudzu or make any sort of capital improvements.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

But whether we have a toll is not the point. If GA 400 was expanded as a toll road, that would be fine. But the toll was only allowed because it was to fund the construction and once that was paid for it was to go away. Guess what? It's been paid for. So now they say they charge a toll to maintain it. But that was never part of the original agreement.

The State Transportation Board agreed to honor the commitment to end the GA 400 toll once the bonds were paid off, but a lot of people (including me) lobbied hard to keep the tolls in place for the time being. For one thing, the highway had never been completed, and funds were needed to complete the other half of the interchange at I-85.

Thankfully that is now under construction and it should be an enormous relief on both 85 and 400, from Midtown to Buckhead and points beyond.

Until the new interchange is finished, drivers coming south on 400 who want to go north on 85 will still have to exit the freeway and navigate a complicated series of surface streets to get back on 85. Likewise with people coming south on 85 who want to get on 400 north.

If the tolls hadn't been maintained the completion of this interchange would remain unfunded (and unfinished) till doomsday.

The tolled portion of 400 has already had other improvements and will need more. How would those be paid for if the tolls are killed?

Tolls are one of the fairest of all funding mechanisms because they only apply to people who use the roads in question.

[noah]

Do you know when this work will be completed?

Originally Posted by arjay57

The State Transportation Board agreed to honor the commitment to end the GA 400 toll once the bonds were paid off, but a lot of people (including me) lobbied hard to keep the tolls in place for the time being. For one thing, the highway had never been completed, and funds were needed to complete the other half of the interchange at I-85.

Thankfully that is now under construction and it should be an enormous relief on both 85 and 400, from Midtown to Buckhead and points beyond.

Until the new interchange is finished, drivers coming south on 400 who want to go north on 85 will still have to exit the freeway and navigate a complicated series of surface streets to get back on 85. Likewise with people coming south on 85 who want to get on 400 north.

If the tolls hadn't been maintained the completion of this interchange would remain unfunded (and unfinished) till doomsday.

The tolled portion of 400 has already had other improvements and will need more. How would those be paid for if the tolls are killed?

Tolls are one of the fairest of all funding mechanisms because they only apply to people who use the roads in question.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by noah

Do you know when this work will be completed?

It's currently scheduled to be finished toward the end of 2013.

[arjay57]

By the way, the State Road & Tollway Authority has a pretty impressive list of other GA 400 improvements. It's amazing what you can do when you are willing to spend some money.

GA 400 | Programs & Projects | State Road and Tollway Authority

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by arjay57

By the way, the State Road & Tollway Authority has a pretty impressive list of other GA 400 improvements. It's amazing what you can do when you are willing to spend some money.

GA 400 | Programs & Projects | State Road and Tollway Authority

Good list. I hope this helps the commute times some. GA 400 is completely ridiculous in the amount of time people have to wait if you commute the typical directions during regular business hours.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

That's the issue many folks are debating- the T-SPLOST was originally meant to be spent on projects that would mitigate congestion, and it's still being touted as such in the advertising. If you look at the actual projects on the list and some of the ways money is being allocated, many of the projects and line items will do nothing to "Un-tie Atlanta".

1. The transit lines are budgeted not only for construction costs, but also for 10 years of operations and maintenance costs. The T-SPLOST was supposed to be for construction- not operations and maintenance. If these projects can't cover their operating and maintenance costs now, what happens when the funding runs out- how will their operations/maintenance be funded?

2. The Beltline is getting significant funding from the T-SPLOST. While I think the Beltline is a great project, the money that it's receiving is basically an economic development grant- not a means of mitigating congestion, which again, was the intent of the T-SPLOST. Projects funded by the T-SPLOST were also to have "regional impact" on congestion- the Beltline will have regional impact economically, but does nothing to mitigate traffic regionally, so why is it being funded by the T-SPLOST?

3. MARTA is getting millions for escalator upgrades and other maintenance items that they should have budgeted for. Again, these projects will not relieve congestion, and therefore don't meet the original intent of the T-SPLOST.

I think there are plenty of people who support the intent of the T-SPLOST, but don't feel that the project list will do enough to alleviate congestion based on the amount of money being spent.

Very well put.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Hate to tell you, but Streetcar and LRT is rail-based transit. They do very well in other cities, eg: Portland, San Fransisco, LA, Boston, Philly, and all over Europe. The BeltLine will ease congestion on north-south routes, eg: Monore-Boulevard, Piedmont. And along east-west road, eg: 10th, 5th, Ponce, North Ave, DeKalb, Edgewood. It will ferry students to the 2nd and 3rd largest colleges in the state, GSU and GT. It will allow people without cars in westside and SWAT the availibilty to jobs in downtown, midtown, and beyond with connections to current MARTA stations, Peachtree, North Ave or Midtown.

Beltline light rail will increase congestion on east-west routes because it will run on our already limited city streets.

People in the Houston Medical Center predicted running light rail down Fannin would be a traffic nightmare and it was. However, unlike Atlanta, Houston had a plan and built two bridges to provide new alternative north/south routes, so its tolerable now.

Its already bad getting east/west. If this passes, it will get intolerable. As for north south, it has to go near people who want to ride and take them where they want to go. Virginia Highlands is mostly single family and therefore not very dense. Same is true for much of the beltline. And there are not major employment destinations along the beltline. It is a cute toy train for upper middle class people to ride to the zoo on weekends. And there is not going to be significant development in the next 10-20 years to change that. Atlanta is overbuilt in high rise condos (like anyone in V-H or Grant Park would allow one to be built) and 4 story luxury apartments. The beltline will only get a few projects here and there for a very long time. And it may get those because of the parks, not because of a light rail line.

We need to spend limited transportation funds on projects that move people, not on questionable economic development plans.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

As the Eastside trail is currently being built, the transit footprint is being created so conversation can happen quickly. The BeltLine was forward thinking in this.

You are very right, but the older intown areas have good concentration of parks. Its just sad that Gwinnett County residents have to pay a SPLOST for park improvements when the county council wasn't forward thinking enough 20 years ago to build parks. Before the popularity of the car, all neighborhoods were planed with a local park.

I'd disagree with both of these points. The current in-town road system is inadequate for the current population. There was a transportation expert quoted as saying Atlanta was 19th of the 20 largest metro areas in its arterial road network as it was stuck with a bunch of winding country roads without left turn lanes. The freeway system inside 285 is limited which puts further pressure on those roads. Inner Atlanta can't handle significantly more density. 100% of new residents are not going to ride mass transit. Increasing density without improving the roads is a recipe for making the area unlivable.

And intown Atlanta does not have a lot of parks. Atlanta is definitely under-parked, especially in the small neighborhood parks. The relatively large lots in Atlanta may be a factor in that as people didn't feel the need. One of the motivations for the Beltline was Atlanta's lack of park space. Unfortunately, IMO, light rail has become synonymous with the Beltline instead of merely one option of one part of an excellent overall concept.

[StAubin]

Originally Posted by bu2

I'd disagree with both of these points. The current in-town road system is inadequate for the current population. There was a transportation expert quoted as saying Atlanta was 19th of the 20 largest metro areas in its arterial road network as it was stuck with a bunch of winding country roads without left turn lanes. The freeway system inside 285 is limited which puts further pressure on those roads. Inner Atlanta can't handle significantly more density. 100% of new residents are not going to ride mass transit. Increasing density without improving the roads is a recipe for making the area unlivable.

And intown Atlanta does not have a lot of parks. Atlanta is definitely under-parked, especially in the small neighborhood parks. The relatively large lots in Atlanta may be a factor in that as people didn't feel the need. One of the motivations for the Beltline was Atlanta's lack of park space. Unfortunately, IMO, light rail has become synonymous with the Beltline instead of merely one option of one part of an excellent overall concept.

I am kinda confused by this. Are you saying that not all of Atlanta's new residents are going to ride mass transit or none of the new residents are going to ride transit? The former is true, the latter is rediculous.