Should everyone pay for highways? (Atlanta, Peachtree City: live, transit, snake)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

This thread is friggin' nuts. Is this the ultimate conclusion of the southern strategy? Has this obsession with extreme parochialism at all costs really devolved to this extent?

Should we pay a toll for walking on a sidewalk too? Or have a handful of quarters for a toll on a city street?

Madre de dios...

Indeed. I think there are a handful of people out there who want to pay only for the exact 1/10th of a mile they drive on any given road, and not one cent more. Taking the concept of the individual to the extreme.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Everyone has to pay for roads whether they use them directly, or indirectly. For those that do not wish to participate, great. Then you can walk to the hospital, fire department, and hospital when you use them? Oh wait, then we would have to charge you a toll for the few times you use it. Then there's those pesky sidewalks, never enough of them when you need them....oh, and wait some more....what about your food? The utility trucks who serve your utilities to include sewers, electric, and gas. How should they serve you because, after all, they do indeed use those roads you don't want to pay for?

Don't forget the bus, those are heavily subsidized and if we kill your particular road taxes, great, kill the subsidies on buses and you should be okay with that???? But hey, you can walk or use a bike but, not on our roads! The roads and other critical infrastructure serve all. Food, utilities, public services, police, fire, etc all need the roads to serve you.

We all pay for things we don't like.free school lunches for kids whose parents seem to able to come up with the scratch for a nice SUV and yet, can't seem to muster the $20 a week for their kids lunch??? Don't get me started.....the real questions should surround exactly how that money is being spent and a full court press to reduce graft underway. Watch how the roads are being planned and awarded and scrutinize that. Tolls are one of the most inefficient ways to collect taxes ever devised. Fully 20% of the toll goes to....THE JOKERS WHO COLLECT THE TOLLS!!!!.....add their pay, benefits, pensions, etc etc etc. .....just charge a nickel more on fuel or whatever and off we go. While it will go into the general fund, full accounting of those funds can be challenged.

In fact, cut out the free lunches, breakfasts, after school babysitting, etc and that would be a good start.....how do you chose who gets the subsidy and who doesn't? Easy, check out what SUV the parent shows up in, what sprint phone they have in their hand today, give them a brochure on a Prius or other hybrid and voila, we no longer have to pay for that kids lunch, breakfast, free sports programs and whatever else their parents are currently fleecing out of the taxpayer. If they can afford $3.20 a gallon in a 14mpg vehicle, they don't need our money to feed their kids, do they? Same goes for their family plan of sprint phones. It's a luxury. Feed your kids first. Clothe your kids. Take care of your kids....key word here, yours.....not ours.... If there is anything left over, you can go ahead and look at a pre-paid for all I care.

It may take a village but that same village is sick of funding yours. The money saved on this type of program can go a long way to fixing roads and bridges. The money saved remains local and the percentages redirected go where they are needed most. Hey, maybe we can spring for a Costco membership instead. Check out the deals on tuna and peanut butter. Seems to work for those of us who don't get free anything...should be good enough for those that do?
It's not what we are spending, it's how we are spending it.....just a thought.....

[Onthemove2014]

Yeah, I'm not going to get into the welfare argument becuase that money isn't even a drop in the bucket.

Anything that travels on freeways to bring us food charges us for that tax they pay on that road in the food prices and we pay a fare for buses. My point is why is ok for roads but not mass transit to make everyone pay for it ?

Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet

Everyone has to pay for roads whether they use them directly, or indirectly. For those that do not wish to participate, great. Then you can walk to the hospital, fire department, and hospital when you use them? Oh wait, then we would have to charge you a toll for the few times you use it. Then there's those pesky sidewalks, never enough of them when you need them....oh, and wait some more....what about your food? The utility trucks who serve your utilities to include sewers, electric, and gas. How should they serve you because, after all, they do indeed use those roads you don't want to pay for?

Don't forget the bus, those are heavily subsidized and if we kill your particular road taxes, great, kill the subsidies on buses and you should be okay with that???? But hey, you can walk or use a bike but, not on our roads! The roads and other critical infrastructure serve all. Food, utilities, public services, police, fire, etc all need the roads to serve you.

We all pay for things we don't like.free school lunches for kids whose parents seem to able to come up with the scratch for a nice SUV and yet, can't seem to muster the $20 a week for their kids lunch??? Don't get me started.....the real questions should surround exactly how that money is being spent and a full court press to reduce graft underway. Watch how the roads are being planned and awarded and scrutinize that. Tolls are one of the most inefficient ways to collect taxes ever devised. Fully 20% of the toll goes to....THE JOKERS WHO COLLECT THE TOLLS!!!!.....add their pay, benefits, pensions, etc etc etc. .....just charge a nickel more on fuel or whatever and off we go. While it will go into the general fund, full accounting of those funds can be challenged.

In fact, cut out the free lunches, breakfasts, after school babysitting, etc and that would be a good start.....how do you chose who gets the subsidy and who doesn't? Easy, check out what SUV the parent shows up in, what sprint phone they have in their hand today, give them a brochure on a Prius or other hybrid and voila, we no longer have to pay for that kids lunch, breakfast, free sports programs and whatever else their parents are currently fleecing out of the taxpayer. If they can afford $3.20 a gallon in a 14mpg vehicle, they don't need our money to feed their kids, do they? Same goes for their family plan of sprint phones. It's a luxury. Feed your kids first. Clothe your kids. Take care of your kids....key word here, yours.....not ours.... If there is anything left over, you can go ahead and look at a pre-paid for all I care.

It may take a village but that same village is sick of funding yours. The money saved on this type of program can go a long way to fixing roads and bridges. The money saved remains local and the percentages redirected go where they are needed most. Hey, maybe we can spring for a Costco membership instead. Check out the deals on tuna and peanut butter. Seems to work for those of us who don't get free anything...should be good enough for those that do?
It's not what we are spending, it's how we are spending it.....just a thought.....

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Yeah, I'm not going to get into the welfare argument becuase that money isn't even a drop in the bucket.

Anything that travels on freeways to bring us food charges us for that tax they pay on that road in the food prices and we pay a fare for buses. My point is why is ok for roads but not mass transit to make everyone pay for it ?

Thought being that mass transit is optional and therefore, not a necessity. I would strongly argus against that logic.

As far as welfare being a drop in the bucket, well, then they shouldn't mind if we put that drop/drops back in the bucket? Shouldn't miss it then....right?

[carrot]

I believe we should pay tolls on all expressways...They should pay their way same as any other mass transit in my opinion.

What is the purpose, for the average commuter, of a highway? It is to move mass amounts of people to a destination. In fact, it is MASS TRANSIT. Whether you are sitting in a car by yourself on the highway, in a bus, or a train it is all mass transit..no?

We pay for our secondary and local roads through city and county taxes as they should be, but highways should be looked at differently I think. The cost of construction and upkeep is too great to be judged otherwise.

We have the technology to cheaply create tolls...nothing like 400 is needed anymore. Look at the new toll lanes on 85! Its just a card.

What about folks who need to use it for commercial purposes?...Well maybe they do not pay and the flower delivery guy using their own car and has to pay up front will have a tax write off.

Again, limited access highways are mass transit imo and should be looked at as such. As someone who rarely uses them why should I subsidize them any more than MARTA or a tram system?

Remove the gas tax, toll the expressways.

Make it use based. As, fundamentally, a Libertarian I am surprised more conservatives and libertarians are not ticked off about how our highways are paid for like we typically are about other mass transit.

Also, what are we going to do in 20 years when many of our cars are getting 40 miles to the gallon and we're still paying this lower gas tax? Its a slowing failing tax.

Just to add, I support mass transit, but would like to see it privatized. I love that I can walk to MARTA and do use it. Just need to get the government to stop regulating how it can spend its money.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet

Thought being that mass transit is optional and therefore, not a necessity. I would strongly argus against that logic.

How are they an option? People have to get around somehow so why do roads get special treatment.

Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet

As far as welfare being a drop in the bucket, well, then they shouldn't mind if we put that drop/drops back in the bucket? Shouldn't miss it then....right?

Make your own thread to get rid of welfare then. I'm not going to have a debate over whether we should feed poor kids or not.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

If people don't feel they should pay for transit if they don't use it, then should people pay for freeways if they don't use it? I hear this argument from the anti transit crowd.

How about making all freeways tolls. That sounds fair.

No kidding. Hell, let's go for broke and toll every street, road, and highway. Seems "fair."

[carrot]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

No kidding. Hell, let's go for broke and toll every street, road, and highway. Seems "fair."

We need to stop looking at highways as the same as local roads...lets look at them as mass transit. They need to pay their way.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

No kidding. Hell, let's go for broke and toll every street, road, and highway. Seems "fair."

That's exactly what I was saying above. The technology is there. Just give everybody a Peach Pass and install sensors on all roadways.

As far as I'm concerned you could privatize both the sensor installation and the toll collection process. Keep the government out of it and put the burden where it belongs -- on the user.

I am sick and tired of my state and federal tax dollars going to road projects in Cobb County or Duluth or Peachtree City that I will NEVER use and which in no way reduce congestion in my area. As far as I can tell they're simply economic development projects for places about 30 miles from where I live.

That's about as socialist as it gets. Yet I and my family have been suffering under that collectivist yoke our entire lives.

Enough is enough. We are not stupid.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by arjay57

We are not stupid.

Herman Cain.