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Old 07-20-2012, 12:40 PM
 
Location: ITP
2,138 posts, read 6,304,012 times
Reputation: 1391

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
But the portion that is included in the TIA project list doesn't reach Avondale. Rather it ends at Emory instead for a total cost of $700 million. Really...

 
Old 07-20-2012, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,242 posts, read 6,213,341 times
Reputation: 2778
That is the first time I have seen the MARTA designed alignment of the Clifton Corridor. I like the idea of the area it is serving, and I think it is worth investing in. However, the alignment seems terrible..

Why are they running through the street near the CDC when their is a ROW behind it?

The tunnel at N Decatur - It would only be .3 additional miles to create a cut and cover tunnel b/t N Decatur and Suburban Plaza. What gives? Why does it need to take a weird route and run in the street? My guess is either the folks on N Decatur Rd protested (get over it) or the street isn't wide enough. Anyone know the answer?

The alignment for this route looks completely thrown together. It is always better to have transit run on independent ROW. This route will subject the LRT to the problems of the already congested road and make it an unreliable form of transport.

IMO, this alignment is not worth the large investment. You don't spend 700mil on a line that includes sections that will make it no more reliable than BRT.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,753,815 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
The alignment for this route looks completely thrown together. It is always better to have transit run on independent ROW. This route will subject the LRT to the problems of the already congested road and make it an unreliable form of transport.

IMO, this alignment is not worth the large investment. You don't spend 700mil on a line that includes sections that will make it no more reliable than BRT
They may take away a lane from North Decatur and make exclusively LRT use.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: ITP
2,138 posts, read 6,304,012 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
That is the first time I have seen the MARTA designed alignment of the Clifton Corridor. I like the idea of the area it is serving, and I think it is worth investing in. However, the alignment seems terrible..

Why are they running through the street near the CDC when their is a ROW behind it?

The tunnel at N Decatur - It would only be .3 additional miles to create a cut and cover tunnel b/t N Decatur and Suburban Plaza. What gives? Why does it need to take a weird route and run in the street? My guess is either the folks on N Decatur Rd protested (get over it) or the street isn't wide enough. Anyone know the answer?

The alignment for this route looks completely thrown together. It is always better to have transit run on independent ROW. This route will subject the LRT to the problems of the already congested road and make it an unreliable form of transport.

IMO, this alignment is not worth the large investment. You don't spend 700mil on a line that includes sections that will make it no more reliable than BRT.
The $700 million portion ends at Emory/Rollins School of Public Health and will be separate grade right-of-way. The cheaper $400 million portion will run on surface streets and be completed at a much later date.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 06:02 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
If they don't work, then the voters do not approve another Transportation Referendum and we enjoy what was built.
The Clifton Corridor and Atlanta BeltLine has a source of funding after 10 years, its called MARTA. Those projects will be placed under MARTA's operation. Clayton County buses and GRTA funding, I have no idea. Maybe by them Clayton County will pass a binding MARTA vote and join the system.
MARTA can't fund its current operations even with the full 100% of the sales tax. Kyle Wingfield-AJC had a good article on that a while back.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 06:04 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
HRT can go beyond North Decatur. If its LRT then it can connect to Avondale. Transferring is not that hard, people do it at Five Points and Lindbergh all the time. Y'all just being lazy
I've seen stats that 25-40% of ridership is lost with each transfer.
Its a time factor as well. Every transfer loses time. That means its less favorable vs. driving.
If we want mass transit to really work, we need to get discretionary users, not just people who are transit dependent and the few transit diehards.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 06:13 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
HRT can go beyond North Decatur. If its LRT then it can connect to Avondale. Transferring is not that hard, people do it at Five Points and Lindbergh all the time. Y'all just being lazy
I think you meant to say it CAN'T go beyond North Decatur.

It can and there are lots of ways to do it. Now maybe there isn't the political will to do it. They backed off following the rail corridor south real quick with a few protests. They backed off heavy rail real quick because of the La Vista neighborhood's complaints.

In a developed area if you don't disrupt some existing development or at least make some homeowners unhappy, you can hardly do anything worth the effort.

Now you can say the lack of political will means it can't be done. I can also say that extension isn't worth doing. Avondale people can probably get to Lindberg quicker taking MARTA to 5 points than light rail on congested streets. Connecting Lindberg to Avondale is not the point. Its connecting Emory University to the rest of the city and connecting the system in a way people will use it. Forcing a lot of transfers after a slow ride isn't very effective.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 06:15 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivtim View Post
As to the orginal question of "is there a Plan B," the answer is a resounding no. Mayor Reed has really explained this in his most recent interviews. The current T-SPLOST process has taken 4 years, and involved an unprecidented collaboration between democrats and republicans at both the local and statewide level. The business community is fully on-board. If this fails, none of these players will be likely to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new list of projects under the current TIA legislation. Reed, Deal, and Cagle have said so directly. The process of coming up with an entirely new way to solve our transportation problems could take another half decade or more.

The T-SPLOST is not perfect. But it's a start. It will fund a wide array of needed transportation projects. The projects were approved unanimously by our local elected officials, with unprecedented input from 200,000 local citizens. All of the money is raised locally and stays local. It will help ease congestion, provide new transit alternatives, improve air quality and our health, create jobs, and help our region remain competitive. I'm voting YES.

Well then we should fire them and put in new leaders. Don't enable incompetents and cowards. Georgians have pretty low expectations of their leadership.
 
Old 07-20-2012, 06:44 PM
 
368 posts, read 537,219 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
MARTA can't fund its current operations even with the full 100% of the sales tax. Kyle Wingfield-AJC had a good article on that a while back.
What are you talking about? If, according to you, MARTA can't fund their current operations, then wouldn't they need some other funding source to pay for operations? Wouldn't they have to declare bankruptcy? The fact is that everything MARTA does right now is funded from the 1% sales tax in Fulton/Dekalb and their ticket sales (with some additional income from advertising space, etc). MARTA has NEVER run a deficit. They have a contingency fund, and when it's absolutely needed they either raise fares or cut service. So to claim that MARTA "can't fund its current operations" is bizarre. How do you think they're paying their bills right now?
 
Old 07-22-2012, 11:16 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivtim View Post
What are you talking about? If, according to you, MARTA can't fund their current operations, then wouldn't they need some other funding source to pay for operations? Wouldn't they have to declare bankruptcy? The fact is that everything MARTA does right now is funded from the 1% sales tax in Fulton/Dekalb and their ticket sales (with some additional income from advertising space, etc). MARTA has NEVER run a deficit. They have a contingency fund, and when it's absolutely needed they either raise fares or cut service. So to claim that MARTA "can't fund its current operations" is bizarre. How do you think they're paying their bills right now?

They are deferring maintenance. That's why we have escalators that don't work and hundreds of millions of maintenance in the TSPLOST.

Repeat after me: The 50/50 split is not MARTA’s real problem | Kyle Wingfield
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