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Old 08-06-2012, 12:20 AM
 
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Dysfunction chic: Metro Atlanta eyes Europe as a model | Political Insider



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Old 08-06-2012, 12:29 AM
 
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Well, seeing that Europe is in a crisis right now I don't think it would be a good idea to model after it, except for Germany (as mentioned in the article that the city of Atlanta could model after it). The way things are going with the T-SPLOST defeat, we're looking more like Italy.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:57 AM
 
Location: East Point
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the reason europe is so segmented is because it's been there long before trains, cars and buses. people lived their whole lives within a 50 mile area— the cultures were developed over hundreds of years taking into account ethnic descent, religious practise, the environment in which they lived and how separated they were or weren't from other people. atlanta isn't like that— people who live in marietta aren't much different from people who live in norcross.

the reason this is so hard to predict what will happen is because there isn't really a precedent— nothing like suburban development has ever really happened before, and building materials have never been so cheap to come by.

one outcome i can see is that traffic may eventually get so bad that it will be impossible to commute across town any longer, and cities and towns will condense— outer suburbs that haven't seen too much overdevelopment will likely go back to being farmland, but inner suburbs?

just really think about it— miles and miles and miles of nothing but subdivisions. mankind has never really done much like this before. when the houses become dated and people want "new", where will they move? and what will happen to these hundreds of thousands of cheaply built homes?
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
the reason europe is so segmented is because it's been there long before trains, cars and buses. People lived their whole lives within a 50 mile area— the cultures were developed over hundreds of years taking into account ethnic descent, religious practise, the environment in which they lived and how separated they were or weren't from other people. Atlanta isn't like that— people who live in marietta aren't much different from people who live in norcross.

The reason this is so hard to predict what will happen is because there isn't really a precedent— nothing like suburban development has ever really happened before, and building materials have never been so cheap to come by.

One outcome i can see is that traffic may eventually get so bad that it will be impossible to commute across town any longer, and cities and towns will condense— outer suburbs that haven't seen too much overdevelopment will likely go back to being farmland, but inner suburbs?

just really think about it— miles and miles and miles of nothing but subdivisions. Mankind has never really done much like this before. When the houses become dated and people want "new", where will they move? And what will happen to these hundreds of thousands of cheaply built homes?
the truth
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:03 AM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,372,405 times
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(((
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
one outcome i can see is that traffic may eventually get so bad that it will be impossible to commute across town any longer, and cities and towns will condense— outer suburbs that haven't seen too much overdevelopment will likely go back to being farmland, but inner suburbs?
)))

That's how it could go down if the workplaces didn't move out. But a lot of the time, they move out to be closer to their workforce, usually leaving whatever office or warehouse vacant for eternity. Look at Alpharetta, Duluth, Suwannee, Kennesaw, etc. Part of what sprawl is, is leaving behind- essentially abandoning- the urban core.

(((
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
when the houses become dated and people want "new", where will they move? and what will happen to these hundreds of thousands of cheaply built homes?
)))
The worst part about this is that GA is such a beautiful place and as the sprawl continues, and the trees are clear cut and hills and mountains are leveled for subdivisions, office parks and the big box and strip malls that seem to follow here- more so than anywhere else, we're going to lose so much of that natural beauty forever. Once the mountains are removed and the trees come out, that's it. It's never coming back.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cittic10 View Post
The worst part about this is that GA is such a beautiful place and as the sprawl continues, and the trees are clear cut and hills and mountains are leveled for subdivisions, office parks and the big box and strip malls that seem to follow here- more so than anywhere else, we're going to lose so much of that natural beauty forever. Once the mountains are removed and the trees come out, that's it. It's never coming back.
I think they should quit building outward and develop ITP more. Due to the T-SPLOST defeat, there might be a higher demand for intown housing over the exurbs anyways.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:28 AM
 
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I think the fact that we voted against increased taxation pretty much cements the idea that voting down the TSPLOST was a vote against European ideals, not for.

Which is as it should be. Taxing the population into the ground and socializing virtually everything isn't working out so well for much of Europe these days. So it's probably not a model that we should strive for.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:19 PM
 
6,538 posts, read 12,030,552 times
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Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I think the fact that we voted against increased taxation pretty much cements the idea that voting down the TSPLOST was a vote against European ideals, not for.

Which is as it should be. Taxing the population into the ground and socializing virtually everything isn't working out so well for much of Europe these days. So it's probably not a model that we should strive for.
I know you guys are probably tired if me saying this, but Japan is where we need to model after. Their transportation including rail and toll roads are funded by private companies, not by taxation. I know the ridership in Tokyo is higher so its easier to earn revenue from transport, while the demand for it in Atlanta is not as high. Still, organizations like the Beltline and GRPP should earn some money from a concessions program, like MARTA is doing. Private toll roads might be a good idea for the metro as well.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:03 PM
 
9,008 posts, read 14,047,632 times
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That makes much more sense.

I forget who uses this model, but I always said that I wish we would follow the road model where you don't just award a contract for building a road, you award a long-term contract with a set price for building and maintaining the road. Then, the contractor has motivation to not take shortcuts or use cheap materials because above agreed upon maintenance costs come out of his own pocket.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:12 PM
 
37,875 posts, read 41,890,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
I know you guys are probably tired if me saying this, but Japan is where we need to model after. Their transportation including rail and toll roads are funded by private companies, not by taxation. I know the ridership in Tokyo is higher so its easier to earn revenue from transport, while the demand for it in Atlanta is not as high. Still, organizations like the Beltline and GRPP should earn some money from a concessions program, like MARTA is doing. Private toll roads might be a good idea for the metro as well.
Nowhere in the U.S. has the crazy density levels of Tokyo which is the source of that high demand, so you'd better believe it's an absolute non-starter in Atlanta.
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