Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:21 PM
 
31,996 posts, read 36,572,943 times
Reputation: 13259

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
The easiet way to see that is to look and see where the streetcars in current cities today exist are.
Well, you also have to take into account that the boomingest areas of town don't have streetcars and often don't have any public transit at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:34 PM
 
2,406 posts, read 3,338,889 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, you also have to take into account that the boomingest areas of town don't have streetcars and often don't have any public transit at all.




Amazing how that can work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:39 PM
 
2,406 posts, read 3,338,889 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
The Cato Institte is a well known conservative think tank owned by super Republicans;The Koch Family. Billionaires from Kansas.

As you have chosen to ignore my previous post to your early remarks,I assume its due to lack of any facts to disprove what I stated.
So again where in the world where there are streetcar systems that are failing due to lack of ridership?
Also what cities where they have them are people wanting too get rid of them?
Still waiting........
The link was posted to be a counterbalance to the left wing crap-piece that was linked in the post prior to mine.

I don't recall your post being anything worthwhile. I would've responded if there was anything worth responding to.

No one will answer this simple question, but I'll keep asking it: $90 million for 2,500 daily trips. Do you think that is a good return on investment?

To me that is pure waste. The link I posted highlights how a lot of the success stories are based on smoke and mirrors. Read it to get a balanced perspective.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:51 PM
 
31,996 posts, read 36,572,943 times
Reputation: 13259
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
No one will answer this simple question, but I'll keep asking it: $90 million for 2,500 daily trips. Do you think that is a good return on investment?
It's more accurate to ask whether $90 million for 900,000 annual trips is a good investment. If you spin that out over a decade the numbers get even better.

I don't think streetcars are any sort of panacea but I can see how they could definitely be a very positive part of the mix.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,346 posts, read 6,484,802 times
Reputation: 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
The link was posted to be a counterbalance to the left wing crap-piece that was linked in the post prior to mine.

I don't recall your post being anything worthwhile. I would've responded if there was anything worth responding to.

No one will answer this simple question, but I'll keep asking it: $90 million for 2,500 daily trips. Do you think that is a good return on investment?

To me that is pure waste. The link I posted highlights how a lot of the success stories are based on smoke and mirrors. Read it to get a balanced perspective.
Ok fine, YES I do! It won't be just 2500 riders per day for long. I'd be willing to bet that if we were spending $300 million for a much longer system with proportionally greater ridership, you'd still complain about it. A potentially better metric to use is the ridership per mile. 2500 divided by 2.3 miles gives similar ridership per mile to St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Dallas, and Baltimore's systems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,734,223 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
The link was posted to be a counterbalance to the left wing crap-piece that was linked in the post prior to mine.

I don't recall your post being anything worthwhile. I would've responded if there was anything worth responding to.

No one will answer this simple question, but I'll keep asking it: $90 million for 2,500 daily trips. Do you think that is a good return on investment?

To me that is pure waste. The link I posted highlights how a lot of the success stories are based on smoke and mirrors. Read it to get a balanced perspective.
Okay...whatever.I will elaborate further.
First of all starting up cost for something like this is gonna be high.The cost is not exorbitant and is among range of what something like this should cost.At least I have not heard or read anything to the contrary.
Its not about the cost NOW.Eventually the cost will not be an issue.You cannot put a price on how the built environment will enhance the livability of a city in the future.
MARTA was before its time in the South and the U.S. when it was built.Do you not think there were people just like you going crazy about the cost?
Would you say that the cost back then was worth what we have today?

The Eiffel tower was built,.
Quote:
in 2011 the tower would cost about $480,000,000 to build, that the land under the tower is worth $350,000,000, and that the scrap value of the tower is worth $3,500,000. The TV show estimates the tower makes a profit of about $29,000,000 per year, though it is unlikely that the Eiffel Tower is managed so as to maximize profit.
Also about streetcars:They are electric so the effect on emission overtime will decrease.I can also see people walking more to get to s stop versus walking out of their house and stopping at the driveway to get in there car.
It is a fact that healthier population is a better off one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 03:58 PM
 
2,406 posts, read 3,338,889 times
Reputation: 907
[quote=afonega1;26473755]Okay...whatever.I will elaborate further.
First of all starting up cost for something like this is gonna be high.The cost is not exorbitant and is among range of what something like this should cost.At least I have not heard or read anything to the contrary.
Its not about the cost NOW.Eventually the cost will not be an issue.You cannot put a price on how the built environment will enhance the livability of a city in the future.
MARTA was before its time in the South and the U.S. when it was built.Do you not think there were people just like you going crazy about the cost?
Would you say that the cost back then was worth what we have today?[QUOTE/]

Again, you could do the same for a fraction of the cost with upscale, fancy buses. Same result, massive savings.

Quote:
The Eiffel tower was built,.
Good comparison. Eiffel Tower = This 2 mile streetcar route.

Quote:

Also about streetcars:They are electric so the effect on emission overtime will decrease.I can also see people walking more to get to s stop versus walking out of their house and stopping at the driveway to get in there car.
It is a fact that healthier population is a better off one.
People might walk, but only because they are fed up with waiting for a painfully slow mode of transportation. Look up the Seattle streetcar speed. It averages something like 7 mph. There was a great study that showed how inefficient this transportation is and that unless you pretty much walk up to the stop and get directly on the streetcar, you'd be better off just walking. I doubt people are going to be walking great distances to get on a streetcar that is 2 miles long.


I know I have said this before and I'm not trying to be mean, but your assault on formatting and punctuation is offensive on the eyes and makes your posts almost unreadable. I'm sure people would take you more seriously if you took the time to proof your posts or at least use proper spacing between sentences.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,346 posts, read 6,484,802 times
Reputation: 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Okay...whatever.I will elaborate further.
First of all starting up cost for something like this is gonna be high.The cost is not exorbitant and is among range of what something like this should cost.At least I have not heard or read anything to the contrary.
Its not about the cost NOW.Eventually the cost will not be an issue.You cannot put a price on how the built environment will enhance the livability of a city in the future.
MARTA was before its time in the South and the U.S. when it was built.Do you not think there were people just like you going crazy about the cost?
Would you say that the cost back then was worth what we have today?
Again, you could do the same for a fraction of the cost with upscale, fancy buses. Same result, massive savings.

*SNIP*
Only for initial capital costs. Streetcars cost about half as much to operate as buses do on the same routes. So the question becomes do we cheap out now, on something with half the capacity, for twice the ongoing cost, or put a little more up front for a highly-scalable system with half the operating costs?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:14 PM
 
31,996 posts, read 36,572,943 times
Reputation: 13259
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Quote:
in 2011 the tower would cost about $480,000,000 to build, that the land under the tower is worth $350,000,000, and that the scrap value of the tower is worth $3,500,000. The TV show estimates the tower makes a profit of about $29,000,000 per year, though it is unlikely that the Eiffel Tower is managed so as to maximize profit.
$480,000,000 is peanuts compared to the cost of building a new stadium for the Falcons.

Take that, Paris.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:19 PM
 
2,406 posts, read 3,338,889 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Only for initial capital costs. Streetcars cost about half as much to operate as buses do on the same routes. So the question becomes do we cheap out now, on something with half the capacity, for twice the ongoing cost, or put a little more up front for a highly-scalable system with half the operating costs?
Read the link I provided that disproves a lot of that.

Even if the operating costs are marginally lower, how long until you breakeven given the massive up front capital expenditure? I'll stand by and await your numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top