Atlanta Streetcar (Downtown Loop) progress (Washington, Boston: best neighborhood, electric, metrorail)

[cqholt]

Bottom line is the streetcar is here!! Choo Choo!! Let the trains roll!!!

Yes and the City of Atlanta is committed to adding more lines and having to run on the BeltLine.

[AnsleyPark]

The AJC reported this morning that the Choo Choo now has a $9.9 million cost overrun..... Choo Choo is rolling over the taxpayers seems like. Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a streetcar.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by bfarley30

Right, filling the streets with buses is the way to go. So now you have tons of buses running 3-5 minutes apart but can't go no where because they are clogging the streets with too much traffic. Since you are in Brooklyn, take a trip to the 1st and 2nd Aves and see how well that's working with the M15. That bus comes every 90 seconds! But that bus is always stuck in traffic. And aren't they building a rail line? Yeah they are since the buses are working so well.

The streetcar will be stuck in traffic too. That's why it's a stupid idea to spend all of that money on it. Heavy rail is a smart idea because it actually moves New Yorkers around the city fast.

Originally Posted by bfarley30

Streetcars promote more development

No evidence. No studies. Nada. Even the Portland Development Commission said that the redevelopment "would have occurred irrespective of the streetcar." And Tampa has obviously seen zero development with its streetcar. So your economic development argument is backed only by anecdote, hype and wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by bfarley30

streetcars aren't easily changed or removed which gives a greater sense of stability

You are a hopeless streetcar fanboy. This obviously isn't true if streetcar lines were pulled up in the first place.

Originally Posted by bfarley30

steetcars or any rail transit is more preferred by "choice" riders, which will be the main target of the initial phase of the streetcar

I prefer to go to work on a helicopter. What does preference have to do with what people will actually do?

Originally Posted by bfarley30

streetcars are also more environmentally friendly than buses and last longer as to most rail cars.

They're not necessarily more environmentally friendly since buses can be electric or or run on natural gas and since streetcars are powered by electricity that's generated using coal. And streetcars require more energy to move. And while a streetcar may last longer, an ordinary bus is only a fraction of the cost. So that's a wash. The only difference is that a bus doesn't require any huge upfront capital costs.

Originally Posted by bfarley30

If it wasn't a mistake then why are so many cities rebuilding lines?

Because it's stupid and irrational behavior just like the behavior that led to the housing crisis. It will seem like a good idea until transit agencies are broke from trying to keep symbolic transit projects afloat.[/quote]

Originally Posted by bfarley30

And I'm sure when a situation comes up there is a way to make sure service isn't extremely interupted. Look at all the cities that have streetcars or LRT that runs in the street. Not just in the US but around the world!

There is no way. When a rail cracks, for example, as it did this morning on the Washington Metro, WMATA has to single track trains, which leads to monstrous delays. There's really no way of getting around that unless you're going to spend an additional $10 billion to build more track. Where's that money coming from?

With streetcars, they either have to (a) single track, which is a pain in the rear; (b) sit behind the disabled streetcar until its repaired or removed; or (c) unload everyone from the streetcar and put them onto a bus (hehe). There's no magic here. And good luck if a rail cracks or a water main bursts. We all know those types of things never happen.

Originally Posted by bfarley30

I'm confused on how a streetcar running down the middle of the street, basically in its own ROW, would get stuck in traffic? Unless the person was driving on the tracks when they shouldn't be yeah but in most cases that's not happening.

I'm confused on how a streetcar is going to run down Edgewood Avenue with its own ROW. The streetcar tracks will probably end up looking the same way they do in Washington, DC. And as you can see, there are cars driving over the tracks. And yes, people are going to drive over the tracks because the road is only so wide and it's not realistic to expect cars to operate in one lane while the streetcars run unimpeded in the other. Have you even been to Philadelphia? I cut off streetcars on Lansdowne Avenue all the time.

Originally Posted by bfarley30

No but you are saying that all the buses should have the technology and MARTA has about 500-600 buses so why not retro-fit all the buses?

That's not what I'm saying. If I were saying that, you could just quote my actual words, and you wouldn't have to say "what you're saying." I didn't say all buses need to have that technology. I said that MARTA could buy special, space age buses and run them along yuppie redevelopment corridors.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

The AJC reported this morning that the Choo Choo now has a $9.9 million cost overrun..... Choo Choo is rolling over the taxpayers seems like. Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a streetcar.

Well, just wait until ridership ends up lower than projected, the streetcar has lower than projected farebox recovery rates, and then other services get cut back to keep a toy running that only a handful of transit geeks and rail fanboys in the metro area even care about. I guess you don't really think about consequences as much when you're spending other peoples' money.

[joey86]

Can we just agree that it's happening either way. The debate over those fancy buses vs streetcars has taken up too many pages and it doesn't have anything to do with the progress of our streetcar.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by joey86

I think everyone disagrees with Yankee but if we don't let him have the last word we may never hear the end of it.

I think pooling subprime mortgages may be a better idea than a streetcar.

[joey86]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

I think pooling subprime mortgages may be a better idea than a streetcar.

That's off topic.

[BajanYankee]

Uh oh.

Cities from here to Tucson, Ariz., are hankering for streetcars. But unless things change, among similar U.S. streetcar systems that are up and running, none has such a long wait for such a short distance as Atlanta's streetcar will.

Atlanta Streetcar's Wait Time Prompts Concern - Mass Transit

[cqholt]

There is no way. When a rail cracks, for example, as it did this morning on the Washington Metro, WMATA has to single track trains, which leads to monstrous delays. There's really no way of getting around that unless you're going to spend an additional $10 billion to build more track. Where's that money coming from?

It seems WMATA has this issue a lot. MARTA is working on completing its entire track replacement project. I don;t think MARTA has ever had this issue and it gets hotter in Atlanta than DC.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by cqholt

It seems WMATA has this issue a lot. MARTA is working on completing its entire track replacement project. I don;t think MARTA has ever had this issue and it gets hotter in Atlanta than DC.

I don't think rails crack all that often. But Metrorail does experience its fair share of delays. And that's why I think streetcar advocates are severely low-balling the O&M costs for streetcars. It's not as simple as "count up the number of drivers and there go your operating costs." You need more engineers, more workers and larger and more expensive storage facilities for streetcars. And the parts are going to be more expensive. It's like finding parts for a 2014 Porsche Panamera hybrid compared to a 2005 Honda Civic. And of course, the technicians working on these streetcars will be unionized (and in short supply), so their wages will be higher than the average mechanic who just drains transmission fluid.