Atlanta Streetcar (Downtown Loop) progress (to buy, live, moving)

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Oh no! If we don't throw $90 million at a 7 mph streetcar to nowhere, people will get really mad and leave. You could've built a reliable, upscale bus route here for pennies on the dollar. This route isn't even about locals. It has been pimped as a tourist mover. Even more reason to object to this ridiculous waste of both federal and local money.

^^This joker thinks spending money to attract tourists is a waste of money.

That's all you need to know.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by JPD

^^This joker thinks spending money to attract tourists is a waste of money.

That's all you need to know.

$90 million? How many more tourists are we attracting because of this? Is this a great attraction that people are coming to see? Is this linking anything that needs linking? Not really.

Build a project that has a decent ROI and you can at least justify the cost. This is built on stupidity and irrational transit fanboy enthusiasm.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

$90 million? How many more tourists are we attracting because of this? Is this a great attraction that people are coming to see? Is this linking anything that needs linking? Not really.

Build a project that has a decent ROI and you can at least justify the cost. This is built on stupidity and irrational transit fanboy enthusiasm.

Downtown's two major tourist destinations don't need to be linked?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

$90 million? How many more tourists are we attracting because of this? Is this a great attraction that people are coming to see? Is this linking anything that needs linking? Not really.

Build a project that has a decent ROI and you can at least justify the cost. This is built on stupidity and irrational transit fanboy enthusiasm.

Atlanta takes in $11 Billion a year ($29 million a day) directly from tourism. If this increases tourism by 0.9% it will have more than paid for itself in a year.

Quit trolling gt.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

gt, your lack of appreciation for the creative class knows no bounds. Today's young urbanites are not going to sit still for buses or non-rail public transit. If they can't get what they want in the ATL they'll go find it somewhere else.

And I am. I'm a year from graduating, and due in large part to Atlanta's lack of transit investment, and the failure of the T-SPLOST, once I have my degree in hand, I'm making tracks for New York City and I won't return until there's a major turnaround. And I guarantee you, I'm not alone.

Buses aren't permanent, rails are. It can take almost as much to rip out a rail line as installing it in the first place, whereas a bus route can be discontinued at a whim, and it's still not as efficient as rail service. Also, unlike the Portland system which uses dedicated streetcars, it seems that Atlanta's system will use light rail vehicles running in non-dedicated right of way, namely the Siemens S70 which are used in a variety of light rail (not streetcar) systems around the country including the Portland MAX system, which is separate, and heavier than Portland's streetcar system. This will allow Atlanta to directly expand the system and link with projects like the Beltline (which I still think should be taken back for commuter and intercity rail use) without requiring any transfers. The eastern edge of the planned streetcar line is only 4 blocks from the Beltline and would provide a good way for trains from Lindbergh to access downtown. Likewise, the proposed Peachtree St. line could be extended up past Piedmont Hospital before turning and joining the Beltline to Lindbergh. It'd be a little redundant for long-distance travelers with the MARTA Red and Gold lines effectively paralleling the Peachtree st. route, but it would be good for people going to destinations in between the heavy rail stations as well as Piedmont Hospital, the existing Amtrak station, and SCAD.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by JPD

Downtown's two major tourist destinations don't need to be linked?

Only about 600,000 a year go to one of those major tourist sites. If you capture 50% of those visitors, you are talking about a ridership of less than 1,000 a day. Add in a few lazy college students who will soon realize there is no time savings in this thing and you have a colossal waste of money. Buy 2 nice buses, dress them up as trolleys and I just saved you $89+ million.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Only about 600,000 a year go to one of those major tourist sites. If you capture 50% of those visitors, you are talking about a ridership of less than 1,000 a day. Add in a few lazy college students who will soon realize there is no time savings in this thing and you have a colossal waste of money. Buy 2 nice buses, dress them up as trolleys and I just saved you $89+ million.

I think we all know that people will not ride buses in downtown Atlanta, but they WILL ride trains. I guess we will just have to wait and see how well this starter line is received by the public, but whatever the reception is it will still enhance the downtown experience for residents and tourists alike.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by MattCW

And I am. I'm a year from graduating, and due in large part to Atlanta's lack of transit investment, and the failure of the T-SPLOST, once I have my degree in hand, I'm making tracks for New York City and I won't return until there's a major turnaround. And I guarantee you, I'm not alone.

Buses aren't permanent, rails are. It can take almost as much to rip out a rail line as installing it in the first place, whereas a bus route can be discontinued at a whim, and it's still not as efficient as rail service. Also, unlike the Portland system which uses dedicated streetcars, it seems that Atlanta's system will use light rail vehicles running in non-dedicated right of way, namely the Siemens S70 which are used in a variety of light rail (not streetcar) systems around the country including the Portland MAX system, which is separate, and heavier than Portland's streetcar system. This will allow Atlanta to directly expand the system and link with projects like the Beltline (which I still think should be taken back for commuter and intercity rail use) without requiring any transfers. The eastern edge of the planned streetcar line is only 4 blocks from the Beltline and would provide a good way for trains from Lindbergh to access downtown. Likewise, the proposed Peachtree St. line could be extended up past Piedmont Hospital before turning and joining the Beltline to Lindbergh. It'd be a little redundant for long-distance travelers with the MARTA Red and Gold lines effectively paralleling the Peachtree st. route, but it would be good for people going to destinations in between the heavy rail stations as well as Piedmont Hospital, the existing Amtrak station, and SCAD.

If NYC is what you desire then you shouldn't ever return. Atlanta will never, ever be that.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

If NYC is what you desire then you shouldn't ever return. Atlanta will never, ever be that.

Yep, Atlantans will never ever care about their community.
I'm not moving to New York just to ride trains despite what people who know me may think. The lack of transit and the failure of T-SPLOST is only the tip of the iceberg. Frankly, people are selfish. A lot of Atlanta's problems could have been solved years ago just by cooperation, but instead it was me me me, and today, we have a mess and no willingness to fix it except by a select few who are ridiculed by others. This goes beyond mobility. There's intense and public bigotry, and attitudes that should have died out forty years ago. I'm certainly not going to raise a family in a selfish, bigoted environment such as what we have now. There's a little bit of hope, but not much, and I'd like to return someday, but unless things turn around, I won't.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So we are spending $90 million for the visitors and college students that could easily take a bus? Oh and we are hoping people line up to build along the 7 mph, $90 million, 2 mile streetcar route.

Sounds like a federal government endorsed business plan to me.

haven't you said previously that you would support such an effort if it was labelled as such?