This is what Atlanta needs to do if it wants to be more urban (College Park: condos, townhomes)

[Uptkid]

All ya gotta do is tear down all those country looking single family houses and build some rowhouses, do it the east coast way!

[StAubin]

Originally Posted by Uptkid

All ya gotta do is tear down all those country looking single family houses and build some rowhouses, do it the east coast way!

Obviously you've never spent more than 3 days in Atlanta.

[cittic10]

Thanks for your feedback.
We always appreciate and welcome the feedback of our friends in the North.
But I'm curious what makes you think Atlanta wants to become more urban.
If you look at what most people who are looking for when they move to the area, the overwhelming majority wants suburbs.
And the metro area didn't come to be a sprawling nightmare because people wanted to live in row houses.

I have lived in urban areas before and frankly that kind of living wasn't for me. It was always so inconvenient and so many hassles.

[cwkimbro]

orrr..... we can stay true to our roots and keep our historical homes and neighborhoods and build ultra dense, but ultra high amenity areas on places like the Beltline!

We still have too many properties to infill and rehab before we give serious consideration to large scale demolition of existing neighborhoods.

We also have alot of townhomes built on narrow lots as is. They just aren't build in a city grid. They are built like suburban spurs. pro-and-con.

[tonygeorgia]

Thank you for your wonderful opinion. God bless you

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Uptkid

All ya gotta do is tear down all those country looking single family houses and build some rowhouses, do it the east coast way!

First of all, there are plenty of single family houses in East Coast cities.

Secondly, we're not razing historic, attractive neighborhoods where law-abiding citizens own their homes just so we can embody someone's narrow definition of "urban." What good is looking like an "East Coast city" when you govern like China?

Thirdly, we actually do have some rowhomes here that are part of greenfield developments:





As nice as those are, we'd be fools to have those replace Atlanta's historic authentic residential stock that lends us a sense of identity and place. If you don't like that, then don't live here; simple.

[southernc]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

We still have too many properties to infill and rehab before we give serious consideration to large scale demolition of existing neighborhoods.

Agreed. On a related note, I have been wondering:
Why isn't there more mixed-use development at MARTA rail stations?

The MARTA Fact Sheet states, "MARTA operates an award-winning Transit Oriented Development program, which encourages commercial, residential and retail development around rail stations to increase transit ridership. The program includes Lindbergh City Center – its nationally recognized TOD."

They are correct that Lindbergh is a success story. Recently I found a report from 2009 ARC (Atlanta Regional Commission) where they surveyed transit riders during the AM and PM rush hours. I added up the people who got on each station in the morning and departed at that station in the evening. This is a proxy for where people who ride MARTA live, or "home" as opposed to "work" stations.

The top "home" stations for AM boardings and PM departures are:
1. Five Points
2. College Park
3. North Springs
4. Lindbergh Center
5. Indian Creek
6. H.E. Holmes
7. Kensington
8. Doraville

Aside from the hub (Five Points) and the end-of-the-line park-and-ride stations, Lindbergh is the top performing source of MARTA rail riders during rush hour.

The lowest-performing "home" stations (out of 38) include:
31. Edgewood / Candler Park
30. East Lake
19. Brookhaven

The stations on the east line between Georgia State and Decatur get relatively little usage (with the exception of moderate ridership originating from Inman Park, #16).

These low-performing stations are surrounded by huge park-and-ride surface lots, and are located in some of the more desirable ITP neighborhoods. Based on the success of Lindbergh, I wonder why MARTA and developers haven't partnered to build on these stations. I would imagine mid-rise development, with street-level retail and apts/condos or offices upstairs. It need not be on the scale of Atlantic Station or Lindbergh. If I lived near one of these stations, I would personally rather see shops and restaurants than acres of surface parking.

If you live near one of these lower-performing MARTA stations, what kind of development would you support at your local MARTA stop?

[cwkimbro]

I think we are on the same page, but we still have to build up demand for new properties for things to happens.

The economy and housing growth has to warrant the type of people wanting to live a condo lifestyle near a station.

so A) we are kind of stuck until that particular market recovers

B) we have to look at who causes the demand. It often won't be existing population in single family homes nearby.

and then C) we have to look at that demographic and see what their needs are. What are they looking for? The reason I mention that is they might not want to live in certain parts of town, but do want to live in others.

One of the benefits of Lindbergh is it is a -relatively- cheap cab ride from nightlife in Buckhead. Many people want to live here, have job access, be close to nightlife (but not live on top of it).

Brookhaven will likely have zoning/landuse issues from existing properties, residents, and businesses that are operating really sucessfully as-is. I'm not saying things can't be improved, but it is an easier argument to when you have a pre-existing area like Lindbergh that was an eyesore previously.


I also want to spot out one area of success that is often overlooked: Chamblee! The old industrial district to the north of the MARTA station has a good amount of infill condos. It is often filled with young people that want immediate access to downtown/midtown, Buckhead, but also Perimeter and to a lesser extent Peachtree Corners.

When the condo/housing Market recovers I would expect good things from that area in the next decade or two.

The demand potential is there, the infrastructure (ie. streets... they cost money too), and the desire to rehabilitate the area from local residents is there.

And btw... just to spot out how successful Lindbergh has been.... consider that North Springs is a car commuter end of line station. College park is the same way, but College Park is also full of airport employees who can't pay for parking at the airport as easily as buying a monthly transit pass. Anyone frequently riding to the airport will notice alot of TSA agents, gate attendents, flight attendents, ground crew, etc... board the train at College Park.

So Lindbergh's ability to service a residential neighborhood is doing the best job outside of Five Points, which is impressive.

a few other points to ponder. Keep in mind there is political pressure from the single family housing areas to keep parking at the station. They were sold the concept of MARTA that they could drive to their nearest station and still live a relatively suburban lifestyle. Lindberghs redevelopments were made for TOD + parking.

Chamblee is also a good case study to look at for removing MARTA parking. The city is also eying the removal of a few key lots in their plans, while leaving other larger ones behind. Particularly the lots to the north. That is their focal point for their "mid city" redevelopment area.

[southernc]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Keep in mind there is political pressure from the single family housing areas to keep parking at the station.

Agreed. I'm not suggesting removing parking capacity at these stations if they are redeveloped, but rather consolidating some of it into decks.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by southernc

Agreed. On a related note, I have been wondering:
Why isn't there more mixed-use development at MARTA rail stations?

Yes, it was a huge missed opportunity to not have land use tied into MARTA early on. There have been improvements in recent years, but there's still a lot of ground to make up.