$1.2 billion downtown terminal on track for 2017 opening (Atlanta, Washington: luxury, vouchers)

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

The Metro had/has federal $ to support and expand...it's easy to be progressive about things when you don't have to pay for them.

Perfect example of what is possible in the DC region and what is not possible in the Atlanta region:


3 billion dollars for the 23 mile Silver Metro Line Extention will be paid for with Tolls on Drivers:

MWAA approves Dulles Toll Road increases, doubling tolls by 2015 | WJLA.com


This kind of thing would never be possible in the south period. Cities like DC, Boston, NYC, and Philadelphia are the only cities that could pull something like this off. Our region's embrace transit. It's just a different world. Make the drivers pay for the transit is how progressive cities function. This will go a long way also helping to force people into taking metro into the city coming from Loudon County and Fairfax county Virginia instead of driving. NYC does the same thing with the tolls for the tunnels and bridges into Manhattan. It's just cheaper to take the train and it's very smart!

[mattee01]

Originally Posted by carrot

Under that thought…all new highway improvements should be paid for with profits from our highways!...oh…wait.

Rail should be privatized anway…

I like that one! Haha!

How is it that so many people could use so many roads so much and NOT realize how heavily subsidized they are? MARTA survives without any aid and Amtrak survives without Congress ever wanting to give it more money. What would happen if we treated the roads the same way? Well...let's just say most Georgians would be driving on gravel like they used to.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Perfect example of what is possible in the DC region and what is not possible in the Atlanta region:


3 billion dollars for the 23 mile Silver Metro Line Extention will be paid for with Tolls on Drivers:

MWAA approves Dulles Toll Road increases, doubling tolls by 2015 | WJLA.com


This kind of thing would never be possible in the south period. Cities like DC, Boston, NYC, and Philadelphia are the only cities that could pull something like this off. Our region's embrace transit. It's just a different world. Make the drivers pay for the transit is how progressive cities function. This will go a long way also helping to force people into taking metro into the city coming from Loudon County and Fairfax county Virginia instead of driving. NYC does the same thing with the tolls for the tunnels and bridges into Manhattan. It's just cheaper to take the train and it's very smart!

Why did you post this? This has little to do with this thread. This is a classic "DC is better than Atlanta, and let me tell you why!" post. It serves no purpose.

This is trolling. I know I should ignore it. But MD, you make good points a lot of times. You can legitimately add to conversations here. But this post does nothing but agitate folks. Come on man...

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by readyset

Na, I can't imagine what they would be doing with $7 billion just on Union Station, That project render certainly doesn't look like it should cost as such. Union station was built in 1908 for $6 million and under budget. It's a historic gem and they can't do anything substantial, it looks renovated an clean inside already. There are plans to build real estate over the tracks but that shouldn't cost $7 billion. The station already has like 21 lines feeding into it. $7 billion would get you a new rail system in another city.

D.C. area governments are very wasteful and build overpriced projects, the numbers just don't make sense on projects there most of the time. I've found Atlanta to be much more inline when it comes to building costs (besides streets of Buckhead).

Capacity is badly needed , same with all Northeastern Stations , adding capacity in a tight area costs $$$. The Station is overcapacity in the waiting areas , on the platforms on one train can board or deboard there isn't enough room for both trains sharing the same platform to use it , that's also a safety hazard. There not really touching the station , just the Train yards and platforms , not all the 7 Billion will be Govt $$$ , most will be private $$$. Same with the other expanded stations... The Projects up here are also larger then anything down south and we have to please the NIMBY crowds... In total there are about 31 Billion worth of New or Expanded stations being planned by 2030 including the ones under construction now. Most station expansions and upgrades cost between 1-5 Million $$ , and take a year for smaller towns...and meduim towns , the huge stations and the Newer underground stations like in NYC , Philly , DC , Baltimore will cost billions but triple capacity and are placed closer to the Job hubs. The older stations will be upgraded and doubled in capacity as well , they will still be used for slower Intercity Rail and Regional Rail which should be restored back to its original size by 2035. The 7 Billion for Union Station will allow for Amtrak , VRE , and MARC to add 500 more trains and 12 more lines feeding into Union Station.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Why did you post this? This has little to do with this thread. This is a classic "DC is better than Atlanta, and let me tell you why!" post. It serves no purpose.

This is trolling. I know I should ignore it. But MD, you make good points a lot of times. You can legitimately add to conversations here. But this post does nothing but agitate folks. Come on man...

I posted it because many people have a false sense of reality. This is not 1960. DC is not getting money nor is any other city from the federal government. DC is paying for transit itself. But we still see ill-informed posters saying the federal government is the reason DC keeps expanding. Nope, that couldn't be further from the truth. Education is the best way to teach people. I bet that poster will think before they post lies again or maybe some other poster will intervene who knows the truth.

CASE AND POINT

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

The Metro had/has federal $ to support and expand...it's easy to be progressive about things when you don't have to pay for them.

What did you say to this poster when you read this lie?

Or, how about the streetcar system in DC being built completely with DC taxes with no federal funding while Atlanta is building their's with federal money. Now who is living off the federal government? There are so many ill-informed people it's pretty sad.

Atlanta got 47 million for their streetcar
http://romenews-tribune.com/view/ful...-for-streetcar

[cqholt]

Perfect example of what is possible in the DC region and what is not possible in the Atlanta region:


3 billion dollars for the 23 mile Silver Metro Line Extention will be paid for with Tolls on Drivers:

MWAA approves Dulles Toll Road increases, doubling tolls by 2015 | WJLA.com


This kind of thing would never be possible in the south period. Cities like DC, Boston, NYC, and Philadelphia are the only cities that could pull something like this off. Our region's embrace transit. It's just a different world. Make the drivers pay for the transit is how progressive cities function. This will go a long way also helping to force people into taking metro into the city coming from Loudon County and Fairfax county Virginia instead of driving. NYC does the same thing with the tolls for the tunnels and bridges into Manhattan. It's just cheaper to take the train and it's very smart!

I think this is not trolling and a great example of how Atlanta should approach reducing congestion. MDAllstar hit the nail on the head about how this won't fly in GA. GDOT needs to stop expanding roads and freeways and implement commuter rail to truly tackle congestion. I am so sick of the OTP crowd complaining about traffic but not wanting to do pay to solve the issue! The MMPT is a great project and will eventually be the foothold for future GA commuter rail. Its a shame that NC already has commuter rail, while Atlanta is stuck in traffic.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

This kind of thing would never be possible in the south period. Cities like DC, Boston, NYC, and Philadelphia are the only cities that could pull something like this off. Our region's embrace transit. It's just a different world. Make the drivers pay for the transit is how progressive cities function.

Based on the video it doesn't sound like the locals are on board with this toll situation. However, in those big cities up north I guess you don't get much say-so on these things. The government just hauls off and does it and if you don't like it too bad.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Based on the video it doesn't sound like the locals are on board with this toll situation. However, in those big cities up north I guess you don't get much say-so on these things. The government just hauls off and does it and if you don't like it too bad.

Building a metro line to Dulles is long overdue. It's also completely turning Tyson's Corner upside down with an urban redevelopment that is zoned and being constructed to bring 100,000 people to the Tyson's Corner CBD over the next 20-30 years. It is long over do. The only people affected are those that choose to live way out in the exurbs making travel harder for everyone else as they commute back into the city. It's the same problem you guys have in Atlanta. This toll should give people a huge pause before they decide to move out to the exurbs or at least will make them think harder about taking Metro to commute to work. It in essence kills two birds with one stone. Slows sprawl and decreases traffic as people switch mode share to Metro. It really should be a model for places all over America. Now, the politics of passing something like this at the state level is completely different. The Virginia State government passed this in Richmond which is a really progressive move but there was a democrat in office when they did.

Most of the 6.8 billion for the Silver Metro Line extension is coming from the Dulles Toll Road Users and most of the rest is coming from local northern Virginia governments through taxes. The federal government has only given 900 million so far and I don't think the second phase is going to receive any money from the federal government. It may actually be a model planners will study in Atlanta for projects down there in the future. At least that is what US Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood thinks:

http://www.wtop.com/41/2991855/LaHoo...or-the-country

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

The federal government has only given 900 million so far and I don't think the second phase is going to receive any money from the federal government. It may actually be a model planners will study in Atlanta for projects down there in the future. At least that is what US Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood thinks:

Sounds like a good thing for the D.C. area.

Down here we will probably proceed by either using private funding, PPIs or by local bond issues. The TSPLOST vote showed that there are differences priorities in the big suburban counties, which makes the chances for a region-wide plan limited.

We're okay with that, however.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

What did you say to this poster when you read this lie?

Or, how about the streetcar system in DC being built completely with DC taxes with no federal funding while Atlanta is building their's with federal money. Now who is living off the federal government? There are so many ill-informed people it's pretty sad.

Atlanta got 47 million for their streetcar
RN-T.com - Atlanta to get 47M federal grant for streetcar

What lie? I was talking past...there is more federal money today for such projects, as evidenced by the recent grants Atlanta has received. And one example of tolls paying for a transit line doesn't prove your point.

There is no need to get personal here, it's not a contest. If you are offended that infrastructure in DC is favored with federal funds, then I'm sorry...but it's true.