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Old 10-01-2012, 09:28 AM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,346,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
The HOA will not "preserve property values" for the owners.
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It most certainly can.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
How about looking at this article entitled "Benefits of the Georgia Property Owners' Association Act". Look at all the "benefits". Ask yourself whether these are benefits for property owners or for the HOA attorneys....
Benefits Article
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That is just part of a brochure for a law office. It does not list benefits nor the purpose of an HOA.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
1. Perpetual liens on your home that can never be paid off are one reason you don't want an HOA while you live there and a reason for others to avoid buying there when you want to leave.
)))

No, it's a reason why you wouldn't want to move into an HOA neighborhood if you don't plan on paying your dues. This is no different than what will happen if you don't pay your taxes, don't pay a contractor or default a number of other contracts.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
2. In many places virtually all new housing built for the last many years is forced by local government to have an HOA. This makes non-HOA property a diminishing portion of the entire housing market. As such, the demand curve is working in favor of remaining non-HOA.
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Now I will grant you that there are a number of little "mice" that feed off the cheese crumbs dropped by HOAs. Just as there are with government. But sometimes an HOA is needed and sometimes it isn't.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
3. The financial condition of the HOA and the antics of its board and vendors will create marketability issues for your property. In addition, the HOA boards and vendors inevitably seek more money from you through "transfer fees", "community enhancement", "improvement request", "estoppel certificate", "resale certificate", and other junk fees.
)))

While there are initiation and transfer fees, and that may be viewed by some as a waste of money, I would debate that these are serious marketability issues. They are small potatoes compared to all the other stuff at closing one must pay. And they aren't necessarily mandatory. If a board of directors determines that houses are not selling because of a $200 initiation fee, then they can vote to do away with it or reduce it. It's a democracy.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
4. The people driving the creation of the HOA obviously intend to interfere with use & enjoyment of individual owners' properties. This will negatively affect use and enjoyment of property for you and your neighbors.
)))
This is broadbrushing everyone involved with HOAs as a control freak and that's definitely not the case. If your idea of using and enjoying your property is putting junk cars up on blocks in your front yard then yeah, the HOA is going to interfere with that. If you keep up your property and don't break the rules then you'll be just fine.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
5. Those seeking to form the HOA will try to enforce their whims thru litigation at your expense. Aside from the obvious problems the litigation creates for the individuals targeted by the HOA board, pending lawsuits make buyers wary of buying any homes in the subdivision.
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Some times there are ego maniacs in HOAs and sometimes there are ego maniacs in local government. There are also blankety blanks that live out in the country that will just as soon sue you as look at you if you do something they don't like such as putting a trailer in your yard. The bottom line is don't go pissing anyone off.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
6. Along with an HOA, the promoters will invariably seek the power to impose private "fines" and to charge assessments. They will want to impose a lien on your property so that you can be foreclosed upon if you don't pay what they demand. See the "benefits" article above where liens, foreclosures, etc. are touted as "benefits".
)))

You seem to be forgetting that HOAs manage common area and amenities. They do what isn't going to be done if there is no HOA.
In a community where there is neither common property nor amenities, and the local PD and code enforcement unit is taking care of any problems that arise, I don't see any need for an HOA personally.

They aren't merely just to charge fees and make peoples' lives difficult.
It does sound like you had a bad experience with one. Maybe you had collections issues?
If you don't want to pay dues, then don't move into a deed restricted community.

If the homes are close together and you get a bad set of owners or they are occupied by renters then you will probably end up in a run down neighborhood and to protect the values and keep yours from sinking, HOAs can most definitely help take care of many of those problems a lot more expeditiously than local government agencies.


As for the OP, again it depends on the neighborhood. If you live in an established high end neighborhood and everyone's got the wherewithal to maintain their homes and you've got no common area or amenities or things like community wells, roads or other infrastructure to maintain then you're right it's probably just some control freak with nothing better to do. Or it may be someone who's predicting a wave of "investors" buying up properties in the neighborhood so they can rent them out and "make a fortune!" Or so they think.

On the other hand if you go through the neighborhood and see stuff like this...


An HOA can help improve property values by enforcing some basic rules and regulations. Such as not having cars up on blocks and not letting your lawn completely die out. Both of those items are also county ordinances but as you can see in the photo, the county ain't been 'round in some time. Complaints to the county are not anonymous. You have to give your name and address. At least in my county.


Or this...


Or to make sure people cut their grass and deal with any weeds that makes the property look really run down. Window unit air conditioners are usually not allowed either, at least in the south.

Or this...

Owners are also restricted from keeping piles of trash in front of their homes and dead trees in their yard.
By the way, dead trees can fall and damage houses which can have a very serious impact on resale values for everyone else. Or they can fall on power lines and knock out power to the whole neighborhood. Utility companies will come every couple of years and prune trees in their easement but they won't do anything about trees outside that easement.


Or this...

HOAs would have a big problem with keeping junk and rubbish and misc equipment in front of the home all the time. That makes the whole neighborhood look bad. Although they may want to see the plans or know what it will look like, they generally welcome the addition of storage sheds to the property. If not, using one's garage or an off site storage locker would be appreciated by all the other residents in the neighborhood.

Or this...

Contrary to popular belief, HOAs and the restrictions are normally very reasonable. You would most likely be allowed to have a small satellite dish... just not smack dab in your front yard!

Or this...

Because you never get a second chance to make a first impression, HOAs normally don't allow you to leave your trash cans at the curb all the time. Only on trash day. They will have a problem if you let weeds grow in your driveway because that looks bad and reflects on the entire neighborhood. As would having a broken mailbox. Mostly common sense stuff.

Or this...

HOAs also enforce rules that may exist about parking in the yard or in the street as well as provide additional short term parking for guests so that access is not blocked for other residents and emergency vehicles. They may also file complaints about zoning violations if a single family home is being used as a multi-family apartment complex.








As you can see, these are all pretty reasonable things. HOAs are run by volunteers such as your friends and neighbors in the neighborhood. While I cannot guarantee that every single one of them is not out for a power trip, chances are they joined the board to protect everyone's investments because they care.

You may be thinking, "But that's why there's a city ordinance. Let them enforce it."
While it's true many cities, towns and counties have many of the same, if not even stricter rules and restrictions that an HOA community has, clearly not all do. And enforcement may be less than expedient. The housing crisis has left many municipalities strapped for cash but also have a backlog of code violations due to unkempt unoccupied properties. Waiting for an HOA to get around to something may take a day or two. Waiting for a city to get around to it may take a year or two. With an HOA, you're using a volunteer body comprised of neighbors to enforce rule violations.


Or you may also be thinking, "That's why I live out in the country."
Living on a large parcel of land in an area with mixed properties- some really high end and some really low end that have amateur junk yards, waist high weeds and mounds of garbage in their front yard, is very different than living in a subdivision or neighborhood where homes are on small lots, right up against one another. In one scenario, the lots are not viewed as one contiguous neighborhood so a handful of properties may do things to lower their own value but it has little or no effect on the value of other homes in the immediate area. Especially when several acres of woods screen the view of it. Whereas in a neighborhood of similar homes, such as the one shown in the photos, these properties are all viewed as comparables when you go to sell your home. The homes that are not maintained may sell for a lot less and that would make it difficult for someone who does maintain their home to get what its truly worth. Not to mention many buyers would take one look at that neighborhood and say "no way, Jose" and it's not because of the houses themselves. The houses are nice.


Neglect and not caring breeds more neglect and not caring.
When a neighborhood doesn't enforce its rules and regulations and people start to get tired with how the neighborhood looks run down and may consider leaving. They too start to not care about their own property. They don't feel any pressure to keep up their yard or do many of the things they would do if everyone in the neighborhood was obsessed with keeping up appearances as many communities are. You can literally go into one subdivision and see where people take enormous pride in their homes and their community and drive right down the street and see where a different attitude, maybe because of a high number of renters or a lack of enforcement of the rules makes a huge difference in how much houses sell for and how a neighborhood feels.


Some people just don't like to be told what to do.
These tend to be people who have not yet had the displeasure of watching their neighborhood decline. I used to be one of these people.


If you're considering leaving your neighborhood because of a select number of homes that are not maintaining their properties, instead of putting your home on the market, consider serving on the board of your homeowners association. Chances are you will bring a lot of valuable skills that will be useful but even more important, you will be bringing passion and a caring attitude that will help your community change for the better.

Last edited by cittic10; 10-01-2012 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:51 AM
 
2,530 posts, read 4,747,873 times
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I am not anti HOA - but most of the issues that cittic10 notes above are covered by city ordinances.

I had a neighbor that was parking in their yard and City of Smyrna did a great job of resolving this for us.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:22 AM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,346,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorilove View Post
I am not anti HOA - but most of the issues that cittic10 notes above are covered by city ordinances.

I had a neighbor that was parking in their yard and City of Smyrna did a great job of resolving this for us.
Like I said, if your local code enforcement is doing the job and you don't mind having to tell them who you are then you may not need an HOA.
On the other hand, the city of Smyrna isn't going to manage your pool for you or your tennis courts or see to it that flowers are planted in your common area and that the landscaper is coming out.

The city isn't going to abate most minor problems like unkempt lawns either. An association very well might. Our does. If you don't mow your lawn and disregard our demands to do so, after a certain period of time, we'll mow it for you and send you the bill.

You could just as easily have a clipboard commando turning you in to the city as you could for an HOA.

And in the unincorporated areas, you may be paying HOA dues but not city taxes. In the city of Smyrna, you're paying city taxes which could end up being more than association dues. Services may or may not be better. It depends on the city and what their financial situation is.

Location, location, location.
Some cities are bad and some even go bankrupt. Some HOAs are bad. Not all of them.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:07 PM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,346,193 times
Reputation: 3547
I've been focusing on rules and common area maintenance but what I neglected to mention is the neighborhood social activities and events. Everything from get-togethers for the little ones to block parties and cookouts for the adults, it is stuff tlike this that helps bring neighbors closer together.

City and county governments usually don't organize neighborhood get togethers.

While its true that one can organize these events without an HOA, the HOAs usually have a social comittee and a budget for the events so that the events are free and don't have to collect money to attend.

Our neighborhood association has added value to the properties by building amenities. No, they're not completely maintenance free but are sought after amenities and help the neighborhood stand apart from other comparably sized and priced communities that don't have anything.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 1,372,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cittic10 View Post
)))
Some people just don't like to be told what to do.
Welllll, this would be me. If I buy property with a large amount of MY money that I have worked for years to earn, I should be able to do what I want with it, as long as it's not hurting anyone else. If I want to replace MY useless front lawn with a living vegetable garden, have a few backyard chickens, park a truck or motorcycle in MY driveway, build a fence around MY yard, paint MY house or MY mailbox in the color of my choice, put blue curtains in MY windows, put up a hammock...I'm going to do it. These are all things I've been told not to do by an HOA, and I won't put myself in this situation ever again. Nobody gets to complain if there are weeds in MY flower beds...it's not like I don't know they are there.

I am not talking about leaving trash outside, junk cars, anything hazardous or unsanitary. But I don't want to be forced into someone else's idea of cookie-cutter beauty, either. You can accuse me of having a problem with authority (and you'd be right), but if I put my hard-earned savings down, and pour my blood, sweat and tears into a home that’s going to be mine for the long term, I want it to truly be a home. Not just a house where I have to make decisions based on what the neighbors think, or whether some control freak approves. I have no desire to paint my house hot pink, but I strongly believe in having the option to do so.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,346,193 times
Reputation: 3547
Quote:
Originally Posted by researchnerd View Post
Welllll, this would be me. If I buy property with a large amount of MY money that I have worked for years to earn, I should be able to do what I want with it, as long as it's not hurting anyone else. If I want to replace MY useless front lawn with a living vegetable garden, have a few backyard chickens, park a truck or motorcycle in MY driveway, build a fence around MY yard, paint MY house or MY mailbox in the color of my choice, put blue curtains in MY windows, put up a hammock...I'm going to do it. These are all things I've been told not to do by an HOA, and I won't put myself in this situation ever again. Nobody gets to complain if there are weeds in MY flower beds...it's not like I don't know they are there.

I am not talking about leaving trash outside, junk cars, anything hazardous or unsanitary. But I don't want to be forced into someone else's idea of cookie-cutter beauty, either. You can accuse me of having a problem with authority (and you'd be right), but if I put my hard-earned savings down, and pour my blood, sweat and tears into a home that’s going to be mine for the long term, I want it to truly be a home. Not just a house where I have to make decisions based on what the neighbors think, or whether some control freak approves. I have no desire to paint my house hot pink, but I strongly believe in having the option to do so.
You'll probably have to move out to the country to get away from city and country restrictions as well.
But like I said before, you will still not be safe from private party lawsuits if you go painting your house some oddball color and your neighbors don't like it.

You're never going to be that free. You're dreaming.
If you've got hundreds of acres, maybe. But if we all had hundreds of acres to ourselves, we'd never need any restrictions, would we?
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 1,372,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cittic10 View Post
You'll probably have to move out to the country to get away from city and country restrictions as well.
But like I said before, you will still not be safe from private party lawsuits if you go painting your house some oddball color and your neighbors don't like it.

You're never going to be that free. You're dreaming.
If you've got hundreds of acres, maybe.
But if we all had hundreds of acres to ourselves, we'd never need any restrictions, would we?
Hundreds of acres aren't required, it just has to be in the right place. I lived on 1 acre at the end of a dirt road and did most of what I mentioned above. Then I lived on 5 acres in the country and had enough space for all of the above AND for DH's target practice. Neither place had an HOA, but my 50-mile commute really sucked.

Within the city, you might be surprised. Drive down Whitefoord Ave. in Edgewood, Rocky Ford in Kirkwood, or pretty much anywhere in Cabbagetown or Grant Park. Houses in lime green, purple, bright yellow, pink, turquoise, you name it. Apparently the neighbors don't mind.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,118 posts, read 6,346,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by researchnerd View Post
Hundreds of acres aren't required, it just has to be in the right place. I lived on 1 acre at the end of a dirt road and did most of what I mentioned above. Then I lived on 5 acres in the country and had enough space for all of the above AND for DH's target practice. Neither place had an HOA, but my 50-mile commute really sucked.

Within the city, you might be surprised. Drive down Whitefoord Ave. in Edgewood, Rocky Ford in Kirkwood, or pretty much anywhere in Cabbagetown or Grant Park. Houses in lime green, purple, bright yellow, pink, turquoise, you name it. Apparently the neighbors don't mind.
OK but remember, you don't want anyone leaving trash outside, junk cars, anything hazardous or unsanitary.
And you also want to be able to have livestock, weeds and no parking or fencing restrictions.

So on the one hand, you really do want SOME rules and on the other hand, you probably won't be able to comply with the restrictions of cabbagetown or fulton county. Cabbagetown actually does have a neighborhood association and regulations as it's a "histric' distric'" as we call them.. it's on the national register of historic places and they may take issue with how you want to use your property.

The reason people don't mind about the paint colors in those neigborhoods is because they're required by the various architectural control committees.

Believe me, you and I used to be of the same opinion on this completely. That was until I moved into a couple of neighborhoods where people didn't keep up their properties. It's one thing to paint your house hot pink or something like that but when it's weighing down the entire neighborhood because there's zero maintenance then that's something else.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Macon, GA
1,388 posts, read 2,235,351 times
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You have received good advice. I am anti-HOA myself as I had a terrible experience with an HOA in Arizona that fined me for a tumbleweed in my yard while I was deployed in the US military and then told me on appeal that "vacationing doesn't absolve me of my responsibilities and the 24 hour notice still applies" (I only had someone check on the place once a week). Ha, vacationing in Uzbekistan...really.

Anyway, an HOA in an established neighborhood is DOA as you can't be forced to join it. For an existing neighborhood, you can have a neighborhood association that collects voluntary dues and has volunteers that address neighborhood concerns. That is the way to go and it is working great in my neighborhood. Do we have a few unkempt lawns, sure, but I would rather look a dead spot in my neighbors yard than be told that all front yard plantings must come off of the 24 pre-approved plant species list given to you that are non-offensive to others allergies and are within size guidelines. (another real ordinance I endured in Arizona).

You are safe. Just laugh at them. While I understand why some people like them, the neighbor wanting to start one had the choice to buy in an HOA or not to and chose the latter. If he now wants one, I say move into one. There are thousands of homes waiting for him!
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midgeorgiaman View Post
I would rather look a dead spot in my neighbors yard than be told that all front yard plantings must come off of the 24 pre-approved plant species list
Sure. Wouldn't we all?

But what if your neighbor didn't maintain their property AT ALL?

I mean... what if instead of a dead spot, they had waist high Crab/Dallis/Bahiagrass? (for a lawn)
And what if they had mildew all over their siding?
And their window shutters were falling down. Like it was the Bates Motel.
And the rain gutters were laying in the yard.
And what if they had a big dump truck parked in the street and it blocked ambulances and fire trucks to getting to your end of the street? (Perfectly legal here by the way but against HOA rules)?

You're just pressing your luck, that's all. The above is not some unlikely scenario, it's all stuff our HOA has dealt with recently.
You're a tough guy until you get stuck living next to someone who doesn't maintain their lot then nobody will want to buy your house as a result of that.

This is metro atlanta, not Beverly Hills.
HOAs are a necessary evil, I'm afraid.
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