Question about Georgia real estate (Atlanta, Between: sales, lawyer, townhouse)

[MoLA]

We bought a house in Fayette County in July. The house was advertised as 4 bd 3.5 bath with ~3400 sq ft. It's a 1.5 story house with about 2400 sq ft on the main level and 1000 is in the attic, with dormers/gables for windows, but we do have sloping rooflines in all the upstairs rooms.

We were surprised when we turned on the heater last night and found that the furnace only blows air through the downstairs vents. There is ductwork that is used for air conditioning upstairs, but no furnace or heat pump is connected to it. It's fairly cold up here right now, I can only imagine what it will be like in winter.

Also, I had the septic tank pumped shortly after we moved in and found that it is sized for a 3 bedroom house. Clearly the upstairs work was done without permits. When I check the county records, they have the house listed as ~2400 sq ft.

So is it legal here to advertise a house as a 4 bd with 3400 square feet when only 2400 sq ft of that is heated (although all of it is air conditioned), two of the bedrooms are in the unheated space, and the septic is only sized for a 3 bedroom house?

[westau]

That was probably something your home inspector should have noticed but I guess those aren't easy things to see at first glance. I am no lawyer but neither of those things to me would have to be disclosed like if the house had previously flooded or something. I feel for you and it sounds like a bad situation but I doubt you could do anything legally. The bedrooms and square footage advertised are accurate. The septic tank would be like if the water heater was too small for the house or something, poor design choice but certainly not illegal.

On the bedrooms not being heated, I would think your best bet would be to get space heaters for the rooms you use overnight and then you won't have to run the downstairs heat as much to compensate.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by MoLA

We bought a house in Fayette County in July. The house was advertised as 4 bd 3.5 bath with ~3400 sq ft. It's a 1.5 story house with about 2400 sq ft on the main level and 1000 is in the attic, with dormers/gables for windows, but we do have sloping rooflines in all the upstairs rooms.

We were surprised when we turned on the heater last night and found that the furnace only blows air through the downstairs vents. There is ductwork that is used for air conditioning upstairs, but no furnace or heat pump is connected to it. It's fairly cold up here right now, I can only imagine what it will be like in winter.

Also, I had the septic tank pumped shortly after we moved in and found that it is sized for a 3 bedroom house. Clearly the upstairs work was done without permits. When I check the county records, they have the house listed as ~2400 sq ft.

So is it legal here to advertise a house as a 4 bd with 3400 square feet when only 2400 sq ft of that is heated (although all of it is air conditioned), two of the bedrooms are in the unheated space, and the septic is only sized for a 3 bedroom house?

Did you hire a home inspector prior to purchasing the house? We did that down here before buying, and we even did that back when buying a townhouse in MN because we wanted an independent evaluation of the property.

[10scoachrick]

Wow...where's Mike Holmes when you need him? I think some serious inspection needed to be done along the line, certainly before the house was sold/purchased. There may be some good news IF the upstairs didn't get incredibly hot during July and August...meaning the insulation of the roof deck(now your upstairs ceiling) must be pretty good. Typically, the main insulation is BETWEEN the attic and the living space if the attic was not designed as living space originally. That means your attic FLOOR was the original 'break' between conditioned and unconditioned spaces. This brings up the question of air flow between the upstairs ceiling and the roof decking...all sorts of potential problems there, depending on how it was insulated.

Speaking of the attic floor, was it properly and sufficiently reinforced to accept the flooring, furniture and full-time occupancy of the attic? How about ventilation of the upstairs space? It doesn't sound like there will be any air exchange in the winter months unless someone opens a window . I'm guessing there is a bath or half-bath upstairs...an unpermitted remodel involving plumbing UPstairs would concern me.

The septic design is tied in to the number of bedrooms as you mentioned(not baths as many folks would assume); but it's really about the number of people in the house on a daily basis. From a practical standpoint, that's the important factor. For resale purposes, that disclosure may or may not be important(again, the 'bedrooms' could be offices for the 1,2,3 occupants of the home...not impacting the demand on the septic system). In-ter-est-ing!

Good luck!

[researchnerd]

I agree, the heat issue on the second floor is something your home inspector should have caught. You might take another look at your inspection report and see if anything like that is noted. If not, they may agree to come back out and make sure all of the work has been done to code, at the very least.

I have lived in homes that didn't have heat on the second floor, but they were old houses with grates in the upstairs floor to allow the heat to float up from downstairs. If you don't have grates, it is indeed likely to be cold up there during the winter. I'm sorry, that has to be incredibly disappointing.

Public tax records may show the original square footage of the home indefinitely. Many people don't update the tax records when they add on, because it would make their taxes go up. In fact, maybe the previous owners intentionally chose not to heat the new rooms upstairs so they wouldn't have to pay more taxes. In any case, your buyer's appraisal should have listed its independent determination of square feet. Is that number consistent with the advertised 3400sf?

The septic tank issue, and whether or not they had a permit for the upstairs work are probably moot now that you have already purchased the house. But you may want to review your contract carefully to see if it contains any as-is clauses and whether you have options.

[MoLA]

Yes, we had a home inspection. We also had an appraisal. I always thought that the square footage was the *heated* square footage. So I would think that both the appraiser and inspector should have noticed. But customs regarding square footage vary in different areas of the country, so I wondered if there was a real estate agent or someone who knew more about that.

The inspector noted that the air conditioning units were old and we negotiated the cost of their replacement into the purchase price, so it's possible that we could replace the upstairs unit with a heat pump. I'll have to look into it.

In another thread that I just read, someone mentioned that it's fraud to advertise a house with more bedrooms than is on the onsite sewage permit. That's why I'm asking about that. It seems from googling that the law varies from state to state, so I was just wondering if anyone knows for certain what the law in Georgia is. We don't have more people living here than the septic can handle, though so we should be fine while we live here.

[MoLA]

Oh, and the home plan is designed to have the finished space up there. The original owners just finished the first floor and then finished the upstairs later.

[ATLTJL]

In the Atlanta metro area, it is not customary to list square footage on sales sheets...probably for instances just like this. I'm quite surprised to hear that square footage was advertised at all.

I have heard the term "conditioned space" for talking about square footage. I suppose you could get into a battle over whether "conditioned" includes heat.

How difficult would it be to hook the furnace up to the ducts that feed upstairs?

I'm not a lawyer, but as a layperson with some experience with lawsuits, I can say that the attorney fees and costs associated with fighting this would probably exceed the amount you would have to pay for an extra furnace, and even if you were victorious, that's probably all you would be entitled to anyway. I'd chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on, but you're the one who would have to deal with the sleepless nights of being duped and not fighting. So maybe it's worth a consult with a real estate attorney to find out what your options are.

[MoLA]

I agree, not worth hiring a lawyer and fighting over. But I want to know what my obligations are when I sell. If we decide to sell, I supposed we'll consult a lawyer then.

[learning11]

If the buyer lied on the property disclosure form (if there was one completed and used in the listing) and you can prove it, then you have to decide if the cost of getting a judgement and collecting is worth the effort and if the local DA wants to bring criminal charges.

When selling, sell "as is" or if using a sellers disclosure then disclose.

Square footage can be measured based upon exterior wall dimensions, interior space excluding walls, condition space, space above grade, etc. and thus is not used as there is no national standards and there have been lawsuits between buyers/sellers. Just like the standard for a bedroom is usually above grade, has a closet , larger than 8 by 10, etc. but there is no national standard.