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Old 11-02-2012, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 4,604,809 times
Reputation: 980

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
You missed the point, too.

You guys are off your game today.

A lot of people buy in bulk, or buy several large and/or heavy items that they cannot carry while walking home. Laundry detergent, cat litter, dog food, toilet paper, etc. Even if you just buy two of those things, it could be a challenge to walk to Grant Park or EAV with them.

Remember the context. I was responding to Rosalyn's passive-aggressive response a page or two back about there being no need for ANY parking.
I said there was no need for parking in response to the poster who said it was for walkers, bikers or those who use the train. Nothing passive aggressive here, just curious as to why bother.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:20 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,228,397 times
Reputation: 8004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
People that live in dense urban walkable cities never carry groceries in bags. We use carts. They fold up and we pull them behind us like suitcases. It takes way less energy than loading the car, driving, unloading the car, unpacking etc. etc. We just pull the cart right up into our buildings, onto the elevator, and right up to the refrigerator in our homes. We also can make more quick trips so we don't have to buy in bulk since our stores in the city are close to where we live. Our produce stays fresher this way. This only works when stores are integrated into the city on the first floor of highrises though.


Example of a City Necessity:

http://foldingshoppingcart.biz/media.../media/033.jpg
Right, but that's not what this section of Atlanta is, or ever will be.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:22 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,228,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Do me a favor, go to a typical crowded Atlanta parking deck and try to get a kid in a stroller between cars.
I'll pass.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:31 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,228,397 times
Reputation: 8004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
I said there was no need for parking in response to the poster who said it was for walkers, bikers or those who use the train. Nothing passive aggressive here, just curious as to why bother.
In that case, that person was wrong. Walkers, bikers and transit users will use whatever is built there, but the development site is surrounded by townhomes and condos, and just beyond that is almost entirely single family detatched homes stretching for miles around. There will be plenty of people driving there, which is why it's so important to take the existing development in the immediate area into consideration when planning a development. Most of those streets around there can't be widened to accomodate the traffic Big Box stores attract.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,469 posts, read 14,922,050 times
Reputation: 7263
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
OK, you're taking this to a laughable extreme. The ladder has jumped the shark. Substitute cat litter for ladder. The point is (OBVIOUSLY) that some purchases (probably at least half of the shopping trips to big box retailers) require a vehicle (and not a bus or train) for transport. That is one of the reasons there will be a significant number of parking spaces in whatever gets built on this site. Hopefully the parking won't be a sea of asphalt. We agree on that, so I'm not sure what your M.O. is with me.
But you were the one who brought up the ladder in the first place?

Anyway, it seems that you are unwilling to adjust your thinking. The items one may regularly buy in a suburban environment with a big car aren't the same items someone who lives in an urban environment would. Specifically around the whole "buying in bulk" mentality. One can't buy in bulk when they can easily carry it home NOR store it. Where would someone who lives in a 800 square foot or smaller apartment put all of that stuff?

The fact of the matter is, as was the point with the OP, big box retailers moving in to the city of Atlanta are going to have to do better than there were allowed to do in the past. Gone are the days where they could just build whatever they want. They now have a set of guidelines they will have adhere to in order to do business now. That not only includes not plopping massive parking lots in front of their buildings and transit lines, but also adjusting the stock they carry to fit the needs of the potential clientele.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 4,604,809 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
In that case, that person was wrong. Walkers, bikers and transit users will use whatever is built there, but the development site is surrounded by townhomes and condos, and just beyond that is almost entirely single family detatched homes stretching for miles around. There will be plenty of people driving there, which is why it's so important to take the existing development in the immediate area into consideration when planning a development. Most of those streets around there can't be widened to accomodate the traffic Big Box stores attract.
Well in that case I've seen two alternatives to parking decks that I like tremendously. At Baytown Wharf in Sandestin they essentially have a street level parking lot, but it has housing built above it. Some apartments, townhomes and even a small ampitheatre and greenspace. Sort of like the parking lot under the Chamblee Wal Mart, but considerably larger, of course. I like both of them as they both have adequate parking and there is no visible surface parking.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:46 PM
 
1,774 posts, read 2,300,162 times
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The neighborhoods in question are approaching suburban density, anyway. I can see what some people are saying, but most of that area doesn't even have sidewalks. Even if they don't buy a step ladder or bulk TP, where are people going to walk with their groceries?
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:57 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,228,397 times
Reputation: 8004
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
But you were the one who brought up the ladder in the first place? Confused. Appropriate emoticon choice. The ladder was meant simply to state that people often buy large items. I could have said stereo speakers. Or any large item. I already cleared that up. You must have missed it

Anyway, it seems that you are unwilling to adjust your thinking. The items one may regularly buy in a suburban environment with a big car aren't the same items someone who lives in an urban environment would. Specifically around the whole "buying in bulk" mentality. One can't buy in bulk when they can easily carry it home NOR store it. Where would someone who lives in a 800 square foot or smaller apartment put all of that stuff? I live in a 900 sq ft home. I used to live in a 2500 sq ft home. My household's buying habits are the same as before. When I said "bulk" I was mostly referring to things that are bulky. Like dog food, paper products, cat litter, etc. Most people aren't going to walk to the store for those things.


The fact of the matter is, as was the point with the OP, big box retailers moving in to the city of Atlanta are going to have to do better than there were allowed to do in the past. Gone are the days where they could just build whatever they want. They now have a set of guidelines they will have adhere to in order to do business now. That not only includes not plopping massive parking lots in front of their buildings and transit lines, but also adjusting the stock they carry to fit the needs of the potential clientele. Agreed.
answers in bold.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:03 PM
 
100 posts, read 142,037 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by rzzzz View Post
The parking decks at IKEA and Atlantic Station have more room in between spaces than the outdoor lots at Edgewood, Trader Joe's or even Lenox...
IKEA actually has designated parking spaces for parents with children. They have more space between them to allow for strollers and loading/unloading children and wheeling them safely into the store. But I was there today and it seemed practically every space in the 'Family Friendly' section was taken by single guys with no kids. OT I know but it pisses me off when lazy people take spaces from people who really need them.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
166 posts, read 324,761 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Another great point that I forgot to mention. Shopping trips for those who don't use a car or use one infrequently are structured much differently than those who use a car 100% of the time. Instead of buying in mass and hauling a bunch of heavy stuff, one would buy only what they can easily carry. Instead of backing up the truck to haul off a heavy piece of furniture, you rent a truck or utilize the delivery service.

With the advent of reliable Internet shopping, one doesn't even need those big box stores anymore. You can just buy it online and have it delivered to your house.
This is what we do. In our condo, we don't even have a parking deck for the building so we have to plan ahead for shopping. Even if we use the car, we buy small loads that can be carried several blocks easily in case there's no curb parking available. It's actually a pretty decent way to shop, in small batches.

And yeah, for big stuff, we use delivery. Though with IKEA boxed-up furniture, we just wait until there's a time when curb parking is likely.

It actually helps prevent us from filling our house with stuff we don't really need when shopping requires forethought like that.

What's great about living in a walkable, mixed-use space is that you can get some things without a car or transit. I walked to CVS on my lunch today and got a small load of groceries we needed. And I probably burned a few calories in the process. Not bad.
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