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Old 12-03-2012, 01:20 PM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Ah, that would make sense. A community that chooses to support its schools will reap the benefits in so many ways.
One thing you can say about the city of Atlanta is that we massively support our schools. No other system in the state and very few nationally can touch us.

We certainly blow Iowa out of the water.

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
It would seem that whites are only open to progressiveness in a majority white atmosphere.
I don't see how that conclusion follows from the fact that the most progressive areas in the country have a paucity of black people.

For one thing, blacks can move to Austin, Denver or Minneapolis just like anyone else. Prices are comparable and in some cases even cheaper than the ATL.

Moreover, what about all the white folks here in Atlanta who have been knocking themselves out for progressive causes? The Beltline, MARTA, the streetcar, the SPIs, the parks and greenspace initiatives, the urban planning and streetscape improvements, the PATH foundation, cultural amenities like the museums, the symphony, the ballet, pro sports teams, the Aquarium, our great hospitals and universities, the extremely generous funding for our schools, our many wonderful charities, and on and on. How can we say they are not open to progressive causes?

Perhaps most significantly, whites are in the minority in major areas like Gwinnett, DeKalb and the city of Atlanta. Aren't non-whites able to set the pace in these areas? If they want a more progressive society, why do they have to sit around and wait for white people to "be open to it"?

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:06 PM
 
16,633 posts, read 29,310,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I don't see how that conclusion follows from the fact that the most progressive areas in the country have a paucity of black people.

For one thing, blacks can move to Austin, Denver or Minneapolis just like anyone else. Prices are comparable and in some cases even cheaper than the ATL.

Moreover, what about all the white folks here in Atlanta who have been knocking themselves out for progressive causes? The Beltline, MARTA, the streetcar, the SPIs, the parks and greenspace initiatives, the urban planning and streetscape improvements, the PATH foundation, cultural amenities like the museums, the symphony, the ballet, pro sports teams, the Aquarium, our great hospitals and universities, the extremely generous funding for our schools, our many wonderful charities, and on and on. How can we say they are not open to progressive causes?

Perhaps most significantly, whites are in the minority in major areas like Gwinnett, DeKalb and the city of Atlanta. Aren't non-whites able to set the pace in these areas? If they want a more progressive society, why do they have to sit around and wait for white people to "be open to it"?


The White City | Newgeography.com
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
aries, I suspect most of us are familiar with that article. (I know you have posted it many times over the years).

However, it doesn't address the point I've raised -- i.e., the claim by you and Roslyn that "whites are only open to progressiveness in a majority white atmosphere."

The facts here in Atlanta and in many other cities directly undercut that.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:02 PM
 
16,633 posts, read 29,310,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
aries, I suspect most of us are familiar with that article. (I know you have posted it many times over the years).

However, it doesn't address the point I've raised -- i.e., the claim by you and Roslyn that "whites are only open to progressiveness in a majority white atmosphere."

The facts here in Atlanta and in many other cities directly undercut that.

Um, Bro-Jay...

It totally addresses the point you've raised.


Read it again, my good sir. Read it carefully--take your time.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 4,602,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
aries, I suspect most of us are familiar with that article. (I know you have posted it many times over the years).

However, it doesn't address the point I've raised -- i.e., the claim by you and Roslyn that "whites are only open to progressiveness in a majority white atmosphere."

The facts here in Atlanta and in many other cities directly undercut that.
Atlanta is not progressive, and Georgia most definitely is not. Please note the southern states that are more progressive leaning also tend to have the lowest black populations. Gunnar Myrdahl talked abouttjis decades ago when he did his famous study. I found that attitudes had changed little when I conducted a survey pertaining to the regressive tax code in Alabama. The numbers were telling, and I had plenty of whites people, some mired in poverty themselves who would greatly benefit from a new tax code tell me that they were against it because it would benefit blacks. Myrdahl found that white people in the Jim Crow south understood perfectly well that the system was damagingto them as well, but they were in favor of it because it kept blacks in their place. Kerp in mind that in order to get Social Security passed the program was arranged to exclude those professions primarily dominated by blacks.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:35 PM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
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LOL!

Aries, my friend, you'll have to temporarily remove your filters to understand what the author is actually saying. The article says nothing whatsoever to suggest that whites aren't open to progressiveness unless they are in a "majority white atmosphere."

That's because that is obviously not true -- you can start with little old Atlanta and run down a very long list of major U.S. cities that are both progressive and that have large and influential black populations.

What the article says is that the media, academia and certain planning circles have concocted a definition of what constitutes a model "cool" or progressive city, which they have unfortunately limited to cities with relatively small black populations.

That says a lot about bias in academia and the media, but it doesn't address the reality of how people of various ethnicities actually live in American cities. And it certainly doesn't support the notion that white people aren't open to progressive ideas unless they are the dominant group.

Just take a look at your own environs.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:53 PM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Atlanta is not progressive,...
Well, it's certainly not for lack of trying.

As I noted above, Atlanta has worked extremely hard to develop mass transit, major cultural amenities, world class universities, top flight medical centers, and parks, trails and biking facilities. We've poured billions of dollars into our public schools and we fund them at a level that is among the highest in the nation. We've built the best international air terminal in this part of the world. We've spent billions to rebuild our sewer system and enhance and protect our water supply. Our freeway system is mindboggling. We've got a terrific arts community, a red hot restaurant scene, and a skyline that won't quit. We've got a large and honored gay and lesbian population. We have museums that recognize our past, and not just part of it. We've got a city government that has learned to evolve from serving a majority white population in the segregated era of the 1960s to one that is majority black. And we did it -- not without pain -- but without large scale riots or burning down the city.

So why don't we get props in your book as one of America's progressive cities? In my opinion we've done pretty good.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 4,602,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, it's certainly not for lack of trying.

As I noted above, Atlanta has worked extremely hard to develop mass transit, major cultural amenities, world class universities, top flight medical centers, and parks, trails and biking facilities. We've poured billions of dollars into our public schools and we fund them at a level that is among the highest in the nation. We've built the best international air terminal in this part of the world. We've spent billions to rebuild our sewer system and enhance and protect our water supply. Our freeway system is mindboggling. We've got a terrific arts community, a red hot restaurant scene, and a skyline that won't quit. We've got a large and honored gay and lesbian population. We have museums that recognize our past, and not just part of it. We've got a city government that has learned to evolve from serving a majority white population in the segregated era of the 1960s to one that is majority black. And we did it -- not without pain -- but without large scale riots or burning down the city.

So why don't we get props in your book as one of America's progressive cities? In my opinion we've done pretty good.
Have you noticed that most of that stuff happened more than twenty years ago? Some of it fifty years ago! Yes, there was a time when Atlanta was progressive, at least for the south. Now, nit so much. I've been frankly surprised at just how regressive the area has become. The inability to expand MARTA. TSPLOST. The situation with the schools and most of all, race, race, OMG, race. Atlanta has gone from being the city too busy to hate to a stalemated quagmire that can't move past its Glory Days. Much as Birmingham is still stuck in the sixties, Atlanta hasn't moved past 1996. Progressive, not so much.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:39 PM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Have you noticed that most of that stuff happened more than twenty years ago? Some of it fifty years ago! Yes, there was a time when Atlanta was progressive, at least for the south. Now, nit so much. I've been frankly surprised at just how regressive the area has become. The inability to expand MARTA. TSPLOST. The situation with the schools and most of all, race, race, OMG, race. Atlanta has gone from being the city too busy to hate to a stalemated quagmire that can't move past its Glory Days. Much as Birmingham is still stuck in the sixties, Atlanta hasn't moved past 1996. Progressive, not so much.
Hm. Well, Atlanta voted for the TSPLOST. It has also consistently supported MARTA, the Beltline, the streetcar, and numerous road and streetscape improvements. We voted to tax ourselves for several billion additional dollars to repair the sewer and protect the water supply. We've spent several billion on the airport. We've had tons of excellent infill development, new skyscrapers, and we have an excellent symphony, museums, and other amenities you simply won't find elsewhere. Our citizens have stepped up to fund Grady and many other superb healthcare facilities, as well our parks. Our schools have been loaded with billions in cash, far above the state and national average. We came within a literal handful of votes of electing a white mayor in a city with a majorly black population, which speaks well to our sense of post racial politics. We recognize domestic partner benefits for same sex couples.

And all of that is within recent years.

The list goes on and on, and it's hard for me to see why our city doesn't qualify as progressive as anyplace else.

Last edited by arjay57; 12-03-2012 at 05:43 PM..
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