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Why so much hostility for SPSU? It is a good school that can stand on its own and has produced good engineers for a long time. What do they gain from merging with KSU? KSU gains a regionally prestigious program and SPSU merges with a glorified community college that is trying to grow into a real school.
So what if the school is full of "GT rejects." Do you think being associated with a thoroughly mediocre KSU is somehow going to keep them from transferring to GT?
Why so passionate about putting down SPSU?
I'm not putting SPSU down, I'm leveling the field. Nobody wants to hear the truth, because the truth hurts. KSU is the bigger school. KSU has more resources. In a time of economic quench, schools are consolidating to save themselves. This isn't just in GA. Have you ever been to SPSU? It sucks. At least merging with the mediocre larger school will open up an avenue to become something like Georgia Southern(a regional university). SPSU is not known regionally. People barely graduate from SPSU. Look at the numbers everyone. Read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by consultingengineer
Chef,
Your tirade is still amusing. Those SAT scores are for first-time, entering freshmen, not transfers.
SPSU was not included in the recent USG mergers. KSU probably would have welcomed SPSU into their fold. For them, it would have meant higher SAT scores, engineering, architecture, and a source for additional student fees to pay for their football program. SPSU students, alumni, and faculty fought to separate from GT and won. They can fight to stay out of a merger with KSU. It won't happen. That subject now is history.
If SPSU's programs are so bad, why does GT readily accept transfer students from SPSU? By your own admission.
As to no productive graduates coming out of SPSU, just look around. It's understood that Lockheed has more engineers from SPSU than any other school. Have you looked at the SPSU alumni directory to find out where graduates are employed? You just might be enlightened.
Most of your statements are based upon hearsay and emotion. Do some research and get some facts. Good thing you aren’t in law school.
As a fledgling journalist, you should know the facts. Who, what, when, where, why, and how, the journalist's credo. Obviously, you need to know considerably more than you do to engage in a dialog.
Chef, just stop and smell the roses. They are found at 1100 South Marietta Parkway.
You lack comprehension ability. I know they're for first year. If you actually read this thread, you would see that I fixed dichloromethane's initial links. People use SPSU as a back up school.
Are you serious? Why does Georgia Tech accept SPSU transfers? I can't do this anymore. People change in college. Not everyone is equal in high school. Maybe they had a difficult family life or they had to work which resulted in a lower GPA. The average SPSU student's SAT stats aren't BAD. They're just ok.
You're completely in denial. I tried. I'm sorry. Oh well, it doesn't really matter.
Last edited by ChefRamsey; 02-16-2013 at 06:22 PM..
I'm just worried about all of USG's schools wanting higher status'. They all ultimately want to be research universities. We'll probably have to create new categories of Super Research University and Super-Duper Research University to help distinguish UGA and GT from the rest of them.
That's how it goes. Why would you want to stop growing, expanding and improving? Georgia needs good schools and colleges for families to move here. Obviously, we're not going to have any more research universities anytime soon..but we can have more regional universities.
Personally, I don't get how Valdosta State is regional. Does anyone even respect that place outside of the office of the VSU President?
That's how it goes. Why would you want to stop growing, expanding and improving? Georgia needs good schools and colleges for families to move here. Obviously, we're not going to have any more research universities anytime soon..but we can have more regional universities.
Personally, I don't get how Valdosta State is regional. Does anyone even respect that place outside of the office of the VSU President?
We need all kinds of colleges and universities and it's not possible for everyone to be top tier. Junior Colleges are right for some but no one wants to attend one. So we have to call them colleges. And people don't want to attend a college so they have to be called universities. And the universities have to be called research universities. And even schools like Perimeter and Atlanta Metropolitan have to be 4-year. I think Bainbridge State is the last 2-year school. And the BOR is trying to figure out how to get more students to attend the Technical Schools...excuse me....Colleges.
And the status of Regional University is debatable if it really means anything. About 20 years ago, there was a consolidation plan of sorts by then Chancellor Propst and the BOR that would have created Regional Universities around the state. It would have placed a school in a region of Georgia as the "Regional" and all the other schools in its region would be "under it". Georgia Tech, UGA, and MCG would be the Research Universities and not part of it.
Georgia Southern was the first and I believe Armstrong Atlantic and Savannah State were in its region. Valdosta State was the second but I forgot what schools were in its region. Georgia State was slated to be the Atlanta regional and KSU, SPSU, and Clayton State under it and I'm guessing GPC and AMC would be too. There was no GGC at that time. I think West Georgia was to become a regional too.
But the process stopped after Valdosta State as I suspect it was getting too political with influential people wanting their school to be the next regional. Adding more fuel to the fire were Armstrong Atlantic and Savannah State who complained that Georgia Southern was more interested in its own growth and advancement than their's.
It's weird in a way because it made front page news in the AJC but somehow it was dropped without a word with the new Chancellor Portch coming on board. And it was shortly thereafter that GSU was made a Research University. But there have been no more Regional Universities added as i suspect because the status "Regional University" doesn't really mean anything.
If you care to look it up it should be in
"Overhaul for University System? Regents study proposal taking regional approach"
September 6, 1993
Page A 1
Most libraries probably have it in microfilm.
If you can fill in the missing gaps in the story...good luck...because it seems to be a part of the BOR's history they won't discuss. As a result, urban legends arise among alumni of Georgia Southern (and others) as they have some really odd ideas about why they are a "Regional" University and what does it mean. The official definition of the BOR is something like "a university that does limited research". But what is the "limit"?
Last edited by MathmanMathman; 02-16-2013 at 08:20 PM..
We need all kinds of colleges and universities and it's not possible for everyone to be top tier. Junior Colleges are right for some but no one wants to attend one. So we have to call them colleges. And people don't want to attend a college so they have to be called universities.
Some of this is just bald faced status seeking. I don't mind saying I went to some community colleges because I feel like I got a pretty decent education out of it. You'll find some excellent teachers in places that don't necessarily have a big reputation.
If you can fill in the missing gaps in the story...good luck...because it seems to be a part of the BOR's history they won't discuss. As a result, urban legends arise among alumni of Georgia Southern (and others) as they have some really odd ideas about why they are a "Regional" University and what does it mean. The official definition of the BOR is something like "a university that does limited research". But what is the "limit"?
Very interesting. Well, currently there are two regional universities in Georgia: Southern and Valdosta st.
If we do use a regional university approach I think we should do EXACTLY what you said. We should keep these schools junior level. I know that not everyone is top tier. Life would be weird if everyone was Harvard caliber.
I say this:
U West Georgia = regional for West Georgia.
Merge SPSU with KSU = regional metro Atlanta.
North Georgia = regional for North Georgia
Georgia Southern = regional South Georgia.
GCSU attracts mostly wealthy white people from north Fulton who couldn't get into UGA. Good school, unique liberal arts feel makes it wise to leave it out. GCSU also has plenty of prominent alumni and the school can support itself. They don't overspend on athletics the race to become the next regional/research university.
With SPSU's help, KSU will be able to become a decent regional university for metro Atlanta..the only problem is GSU is so low and going downhill...GSU ends up becoming the metro Atlanta regional school. Especially for African American students. Many people consider GSU an HBCU now. So I don't know how that throws a wrench into USG management. UGA and Tech can pretty much carry on. GRU also poses a problem. With ASU under their belt..aren't they serving the students ASU use to serve? I still don't get how they're supposed to increase admission standards at GRU.
Other smaller schools can consolidate administration, but leave instructional goals mostly the same. Money saved, problem solved.
Very interesting. Well, currently there are two regional universities in Georgia: Southern and Valdosta st.
Well, yeah, I just explained all that.
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If we do use a regional university approach I think we should do EXACTLY what you said. We should keep these schools junior level. I know that not everyone is top tier. Life would be weird if everyone was Harvard caliber.
But I just explained the problems with the regional university approach. It's politically charged and its mission ill-defined.
Quote:
I say this:
U West Georgia = regional for West Georgia.
Merge SPSU with KSU = regional metro Atlanta.
North Georgia = regional for North Georgia
Georgia Southern = regional South Georgia.
What about the other schools within those regions? And what is the purpose and mission of the Regional?
Quote:
GCSU attracts mostly wealthy white people from north Fulton who couldn't get into UGA. Good school, unique liberal arts feel makes it wise to leave it out. GCSU also has plenty of prominent alumni and the school can support itself. They don't overspend on athletics the race to become the next regional/research university.
Leave GCSU out of what? What's wrong with it begin a Regional?
Quote:
With SPSU's help, KSU will be able to become a decent regional university for metro Atlanta..the only problem is GSU is so low and going downhill...GSU ends up becoming the metro Atlanta regional school. Especially for African American students. Many people consider GSU an HBCU now. So I don't know how that throws a wrench into USG management.
And what is the newly merged SPSU/KSU mission as a regional that it doesn't already do?
Quote:
GRU also poses a problem. With ASU under their belt..aren't they serving the students ASU use to serve? I still don't get how they're supposed to increase admission standards at GRU.
GRU could resemble GSU. Not so strong Undergraduate but good graduate programs.
There was talk nearly 25 years ago about Georgia having a Hybrid University namely the "Regional University".
"Debate Begins on Role Of `Hybrid' University"
January 22, 1989
Atlanta Journal and The Atlanta Constitution
Page C 1
The last school elevated to Regional status was Valdosta State in July 1, 1993. Nothing has been done since. And I don't see GA Southern and Valdosta State as distinguishing themselves from GCSU, NGCSU, KSU, or even SPSU. GSU only distinguishes itself from "regional" by the fact that it really is acting like a research university in terms of bringing in research dollars.
I don't think "Regional" imparts any particular meaningful status. Just some holdover from the past that the BOR apparently doesn't want to grant to other schools. Instead, they are going with consolidation which is a permanent bringing together of the schools under one administration. I haven't heard even a hint of the BOR wanting to add more schools as "regionals".
Some of this is just bald faced status seeking. I don't mind saying I went to some community colleges because I feel like I got a pretty decent education out of it. You'll find some excellent teachers in places that don't necessarily have a big reputation.
exactly— i went to georgia perimeter for a two year degree, and i had some teachers that were absolute geniuses and excellent teachers as well. however, you had to take the honours courses to really get the full package— for example i had a teacher named mr. eidson who was an excellent, excellent british literature teacher. it wasn't an easy course either— on the final we had to write an essay and use MLA citation from memory. however, his standard course was beyond simplified. the students were assigned to read 'twilight' (yes, that twilight). i think there was pressure for him to simplify the standard courses for people who just wanted to "get through".
in addition, we had some teachers that were employed full-time outside of class, for example, the city manager of the city of dunwoody taught my public administration class. so don't think junior college is some kind of technical school— it's not, and the credit hours are transferrable to UGA, GSU, etc. but you really have to look out for those 'honors' courses to get the full experience.
GSU might have a large black student population, but to say, it's now an HBCU is just silly. The white and Asian population of the school is still higher then the total black population easily. Still, easily, the most diverse school in this state with GT probably being second. Ones who call it an HBCU say that with a racist connotation to it, but it's not direct racism.
Also, GSU needs to get rid of the failed football program. Money spent on that terrible program can be spent elsewhere to improve the school. Ever since the football program came, the school has went downhill. As many people have said, use the NYU model. No one cares about sports as much as they care about their education when they are attending college or at least I hope(obviously minus the sports athletes or related majors).
I can't tell whether this year was simply an anomaly as far as dropping SAT's scores, however, if it becomes a trend, GSU might need to look more into learning how to allocate it's money more into improving the school and recruiting students. Soon enough, KSU and Georgia Southern will completely pass them. The thing that puts GSU ahead of these schools is simply the word 'research' in their name at this point.
exactly— i went to georgia perimeter for a two year degree, and i had some teachers that were absolute geniuses and excellent teachers as well. however, you had to take the honours courses to really get the full package— for example i had a teacher named mr. eidson who was an excellent, excellent british literature teacher. it wasn't an easy course either— on the final we had to write an essay and use MLA citation from memory. however, his standard course was beyond simplified. the students were assigned to read 'twilight' (yes, that twilight). i think there was pressure for him to simplify the standard courses for people who just wanted to "get through".
in addition, we had some teachers that were employed full-time outside of class, for example, the city manager of the city of dunwoody taught my public administration class. so don't think junior college is some kind of technical school— it's not, and the credit hours are transferrable to UGA, GSU, etc. but you really have to look out for those 'honors' courses to get the full experience.
Lol, doing MLA citation from memory isn't hard. I use MLA for every essay I write now in college regardless of whether the professor is asking for it or not.
It doesn't matter where you attend your 1st 2 years...the only thing that truly matters to employees is where you graduate from and get your undergraduate/graduate degree from. You can do 2 years at a community college, do extremely well, transfer into UCLA or GT, and graduate from there and get a good job.
~Ant131531
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The official definition of the BOR is something like "a university that does limited research". But what is the "limit"? 
