New T-Splost Chances Rising

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by kferq

Do you think the things you suggest have not been tried? You clearly don't understand the situation in the corridor. Study the map, learn the history and don't say ignorant things. Go to the Clifton corridor transportation website. Do you see the elaborate network of shuttle buses that Emory and the CDC run and how often they go? Every road to the West and South into Atlanta is ultimately one lane. On many, there are no traffic lights to sync. Should we sync the stop signs? Which neighborhood should be bulldozed? These are the same neighborhoods that defeated I-485, so good luck with your alternatives. The traffic is maxed out in the area, so LRT is not going to change it. What it will do is allow people to get though to an otherwise impassible area.

You also don't understand the type of work we do. Emory College, Emory Hospital, Children's and the CDC all have other campuses. But there is a reason that the premier facilities are clumped together in one place. It would certainly not be the end of the world to move to new facilities, but Atlanta would loose competitive advantage over our competing cities. If you want the CDC in Seattle, by all means go ahead and do nothing.

I'm not arguing that it provides access. It does. I think that the investment required is too high for the project.

So you think that MARTA's estimate of $1.15 billion for just 17,500 daily boardings by 2030 is a good investment. Seriously? You think that just 9,000 round-trip riders warrant $1.15 billion in infrastructure improvements?

That sounds like a lot of money to spend to cater to some people who have placed their facilities in really, really bad locations.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I'm not arguing that it provides access. It does. I think that the investment required is too high for the project.

So you think that MARTA's estimate of $1.15 billion for just 17,500 daily boardings by 2030 is a good investment. Seriously? You think that just 9,000 round-trip riders warrant $1.15 billion in infrastructure improvements?

That sounds like a lot of money to spend to cater to some people who have placed their facilities in really, really bad locations.

I think it's a good idea. For starters, $1 billion is not that much money in today's world. Some baseball players make $250 million in 10 years. The new Proton Center on Peachtree will run $200 million and that's just one little building. Both the Avalon and Buckhead Atlanta developments are in the range of $600 million. The new football stadium alone will run $1.3 billion.

Moreover, you have to look at it over time. Let's say you get 15,000 riders a day -- that's 5.5 million a year.

In my opinion the Emory/Lindbergh corridor will see a lot of growth from that kind of added mobility. It's got density, critical mass and the kind of hippy-dippy population that will take to trains.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I think it's a good idea. For starters, $1 billion is not that much money in today's world. Some baseball players make $250 million in 10 years. The new Proton Center on Peachtree will run $200 million and that's just one little building. Both the Avalon and Buckhead Atlanta developments are in the range of $600 million. The new football stadium alone will run $1.3 billion.

Moreover, you have to look at it over time. Let's say you get 15,000 riders a day -- that's 5.5 million a year.

In my opinion the Emory/Lindbergh corridor will see a lot of growth from that kind of added mobility. It's got density, critical mass and the kind of hippy-dippy population that will take to trains.

It will also add a much needed transit connection from eastern Blue/Green Line to the Red/Gold Line without having to travel to Five Points. By connecting at Lindbergh it absorbs riders from both Red and Gold lines north of the concurrent section.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I think it's a good idea. For starters, $1 billion is not that much money in today's world. Some baseball players make $250 million in 10 years. The new Proton Center on Peachtree will run $200 million and that's just one little building. Both the Avalon and Buckhead Atlanta developments are in the range of $600 million. The new football stadium alone will run $1.3 billion.

Moreover, you have to look at it over time. Let's say you get 15,000 riders a day -- that's 5.5 million a year.

$1 billion is a lot of money?

Baseball players salaries = justification for spending money?

Those developments are all private developments that are designed to make money.

You are looking at more like 9,000 riders a day, not 15,000.

[bfarley30]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I'm not arguing that it provides access. It does. I think that the investment required is too high for the project.

So you think that MARTA's estimate of $1.15 billion for just 17,500 daily boardings by 2030 is a good investment. Seriously? You think that just 9,000 round-trip riders warrant $1.15 billion in infrastructure improvements?

That sounds like a lot of money to spend to cater to some people who have placed their facilities in really, really bad locations.

I've read multiple posts you put and it seems to me that your main argument is that the amount of money that is being spent isn't justified because of the amount of riders. I think there is a lot more than that though. Think about the economic development rail will bring. The jobs that it will generate to be close to rail service. The convenience factor it will bring for thousands of riders. Plus most estimates are normally surpassed when the lines are actually built. I think the 1.15 billion dollar price tag won't compare the the billions in private development, new jobs and residents along the line, and the convenience factor it will provide for current riders and new riders along with a better quality of life.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

$1 billion is a lot of money?

Baseball players salaries = justification for spending money?

Those developments are all private developments that are designed to make money.

You are looking at more like 9,000 riders a day, not 15,000.

The 75/575 HOT lanes are suppose to cost billions, yet will carry few commuters compared to the price tag. Surprised you are not calling this out as not worth the cost per rider?

[arjay57]

I'm just putting in perspective. We don't think twice about spending that kind of money for an athlete, a shopping center or a sports stadium.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The 75/575 HOT lanes are suppose to cost billions, yet will carry few commuters compared to the price tag. Surprised you are not calling this out as not worth the cost per rider?

So we are changing subjects? I would be in favor of spending some tax money on the project, but would want that mostly privately financed. I would not be in favor of spending a billion dollars for 9,000 people to use HOT lanes, but could see spending half of that if the lanes are utilized by 40,000 drivers daily and have a significant impact on regional traffic. Where is the cutoff? That is hard to say, but clearly I wouldn't spend $1.15 billion for 9,000 people a day. That is absurd for any project.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm just putting in perspective. We don't think twice about spending that kind of money for an athlete, a shopping center or a sports stadium.

Yes, but athletes produce tangible value. Lebron might make $15 million per year in salary, but he generates much more income than that. He is worth that salary and then some. The same goes for most other high paid athletes. Shopping centers are built to turn a profit. To some extent, sports stadiums do too... but this is where things start getting murky (public money, etc.).

Quantifying the benefits of LRT is more difficult. Of course it leads to development and other public benefits. I never debate that. I just wonder if $1.15 billion is worth just 9,000 daily riders. That is a reasonable concern and I appear to be the only one on here thinking logically. I would love Atlanta to have a much more efficient and extensive rail network, but until MARTA shows the ability to operate efficiently with their current resources, I have a hard time thinking they should get $1.15 billion to spend on another project that has an isolated impact.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Quantifying the benefits of LRT is more difficult. Of course it leads to development and other public benefits. I never debate that. I just wonder if $1.15 billion is worth just 9,000 daily riders. That is a reasonable concern and I appear to be the only one on here thinking logically.

That's absolutely a reasonable concern and it's worthy of continued debate. However, I don't scoff at the idea that it would be highly useful. That's in an area with critical mass and lots of density.