GRTA quietly making case to state lawmakers to fund Xpress bus service (Atlanta: homes, sales tax)

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by CCATL

Really? GRTA carries 9000 people per day, versus MARTA's 422,400 people per day.

MARTA does not carry 422,000 people per day. That is the number of unlinked passenger trips.

Definition: Unlinked trips are the total numbers of passenger boardings on our bus, rail, and Mobility services. Passengers are counted each time they board a MARTA vehicle.


One person who takes a bus and a train trip to/from work would count as 4 unlinked trips. Understanding how transit systems count ridership is important, because it is not very intuitive and acts to inflate their numbers if you don't understand their measurement criteria.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

MARTA does not carry 422,000 people per day. That is the number of unlinked passenger trips.

Definition: Unlinked trips are the total numbers of passenger boardings on our bus, rail, and Mobility services. Passengers are counted each time they board a MARTA vehicle.


One person who takes a bus and a train trip to/from work would count as 4 unlinked trips. Understanding how transit systems count ridership is important, because it is not very intuitive and acts to inflate their numbers if you don't understand their measurement criteria.

I'm not saying I am any kind of expert on ridership counts, or the internal workings of a transit agency. But, even using that definition of ridership, and assuming 1 transfer in each direction for a round trip rider (4 unlinked trips), that still means 105,600 people are riding MARTA per day. My assumption is that the majority of people taking MARTA probably have 2 unlinked trips, not 4 (I'm not sure about this, but maybe you know better). But either way, that's still almost 12x more people riding MARTA per day. My original argument was that they said the GRTA service takes lots of people off the roads, and is therefore worth it. So even with that new calculation, I think my argument still stands. Either way, way more people use MARTA per day than GRTA, so it in effect takes a lot more people off of the roads.

EDIT: Do you know if GRTA also counts like this? So is 9000 people per day actually 4500 per day, since 1 rider would be counted twice for a round trip? If so, then that is a minuscule percentage of Atlanta commuters.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

MARTA does not carry 422,000 people per day. That is the number of unlinked passenger trips.

Definition: Unlinked trips are the total numbers of passenger boardings on our bus, rail, and Mobility services. Passengers are counted each time they board a MARTA vehicle.


One person who takes a bus and a train trip to/from work would count as 4 unlinked trips. Understanding how transit systems count ridership is important, because it is not very intuitive and acts to inflate their numbers if you don't understand their measurement criteria.

Not this BS again! If you have nothing reliant to add to the conversation then please stay in your cave.
If this is true, then GRTA really carries <4000?
And there is way more than 100,000 people per day using the entire MARTA system, be real?

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by CCATL

I'm not saying I am any kind of expert on ridership counts, or the internal workings of a transit agency. But, even using that definition of ridership, and assuming 1 transfer in each direction for a round trip rider (4 unlinked trips), that still means 105,600 people are riding MARTA per day. My assumption is that the majority of people taking MARTA probably have 2 unlinked trips, not 4 (I'm not sure about this, but maybe you know better). But either way, that's still almost 12x more people riding MARTA per day. My original argument was that they said the GRTA service takes lots of people off the roads, and is therefore worth it. So even with that new calculation, I think my argument still stands. Either way, way more people use MARTA per day than GRTA, so it in effect takes a lot more people off of the roads.

EDIT: Do you know if GRTA also counts like this? So is 9000 people per day actually 4500 per day, since 1 rider would be counted twice for a round trip? If so, then that is a minuscule percentage of Atlanta commuters.

I'm not an expert either, but I think this is an important distinction that needs to be made and understood if these numbers are going to be used. Intuitively I would suspect the number is close to somewhere between 2 and 2.5 unlinked trips per day which would actually make the number of passengers serviced between 169,000 and 211,000 which is a helluva lot different than 422,000. Heck, assuming 5 million people in the metro area, that takes the ridership percentage from about 8% to just about 3.75%. Even limiting it to Dekalb and Fulton Counties, the ridership percentage falls even more dramatically from 24% to just 11%.

I suspect that the 9,000 people per day is actually unlinked trips per day, which would put actually ridership at about 4,500.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Not this BS again! If you have nothing reliant to add to the conversation then please stay in your cave.
If this is true, then GRTA really carries <4000?
And there is way more than 100,000 people per day using the entire MARTA system, be real?

Read the definition and educate yourself. I'm not saying that just 100,000 people per day use the system, but that someone who transfers could count as 4 trips. Read my previous post for more explanation.

I think GRTA's number would be closer to 4,500 since there isn't a lot of transferring going on in that system.

This is very pertinent to any discussion involving ridership numbers. Inflating the number of "passengers" to double and triple count actual passengers is good for your pro-transit cheerleading, but doesn't reflect reality. I like to deal with facts.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I'm not an expert either, but I think this is an important distinction that needs to be made and understood if these numbers are going to be used. Intuitively I would suspect the number is close to somewhere between 2 and 2.5 unlinked trips per day which would actually make the number of passengers serviced between 169,000 and 211,000 which is a helluva lot different than 422,000. Heck, assuming 5 million people in the metro area, that takes the ridership percentage from about 8% to just about 3.75%. Even limiting it to Dekalb and Fulton Counties, the ridership percentage falls even more dramatically from 24% to just 11%.

I suspect that the 9,000 people per day is actually unlinked trips per day, which would put actually ridership at about 4,500.

I agree, knowing how the numbers are calculated is important. Either way, House Appropriations Chairman Terry England needs to further explain his argument, since this would lead me to believe that if this is actually the reason to fund GRTA, then he has no excuse not to support funding MARTA. Now, I know cqholt is correct in saying that they are doing this to serve the constituents who vote for them, but at least hide it better than with that pathetic reason for giving GRTA funding after saying MARTA doesn't deserve any state money. Absolutely ridiculous.

[cqholt]

Read the definition and educate yourself. I'm not saying that just 100,000 people per day use the system, but that someone who transfers could count as 4 trips. Read my previous post for more explanation.

I think GRTA's number would be closer to 4,500 since there isn't a lot of transferring going on in that system.

This is very pertinent to any discussion involving ridership numbers. Inflating the number of "passengers" to double and triple count actual passengers is good for your pro-transit cheerleading, but doesn't reflect reality. I like to deal with facts.

I read your definition many times on CD to know it. With the way users tap breezecards to enter the system, exit the gate, and transfer to buses wouldn't think the count is more accurate since it can track the users?
Why aren't you raising hell about $8 million, that could be $12 million, for 4500 passengers like you did about the Clifton Corridor?

Heck, assuming 5 million people in the metro area, that takes the ridership percentage from about 8% to just about 3.75%. Even limiting it to Dekalb and Fulton Counties, the ridership percentage falls even more dramatically from 24% to just 11%.

12% of COA residents use transit, fact!

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I read your definition many times on CD to know it. With the way users tap breezecards to enter the system, exit the gate, and transfer to buses wouldn't think the count is more accurate since it can track the users?
Why aren't you raising hell about $8 million, that could be $12 million, for 4500 passengers like you did about the Clifton Corridor?

12% of COA residents use transit, fact!

You are talking about $8-12 million vs. $1.1 billion. If you want $8 million for the Clifton Corridor, I could agree to that sum. I don't disagree that it wouldn't be the worst thing for the state to fund a very small portion of MARTA. I've never made that argument, son. I have made the argument that in order to pay for increased spending, the state would have to cut that money from somewhere else. Adding new spending without decreasing existing spending is awful business and not what the state needs. Taking money from road funding, which is already comparatively low, and drives far more commerce in the state is not the solution to help subsidize MARTA.

That 12% is close in-line with my common sense swag using 190,000 passengers. Seems like somewhere around 200,000 daily passenger number is on the mark and 422,000 is not accurate. So using your number, we can both agree on 200,000.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

You are talking about $8-12 million vs. $1.1 billion. If you want $8 million for the Clifton Corridor, I could agree to that sum. I don't disagree that it wouldn't be the worst thing for the state to fund a very small portion of MARTA. I've never made that argument, son. I have made the argument that in order to pay for increased spending, the state would have to cut that money from somewhere else. Adding new spending without decreasing existing spending is awful business and not what the state needs. Taking money from road funding, which is already comparatively low, and drives far more commerce in the state is not the solution to help subsidize MARTA.

That 12% is close in-line with my common sense swag using 190,000 passengers. Seems like somewhere around 200,000 daily passenger number is on the mark and 422,000 is not accurate. So using your number, we can both agree on 200,000.

That 12% is just COA residents, not those evil suburbanites exploiting our sales tax-backed transit system. Let's cut it from legislator's and governor's pay? They make horrible decisions anyways.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

That 12% is just COA residents, not those evil suburbanites exploiting our sales tax-backed transit system. Let's cut it from legislator's and governor's pay? They make horrible decisions anyways.

What the hell are you trying to say? You are making even less sense than usual.

Obviously you have no valid counterpoints.