Let's Talk About the Peachtree Streetcar (street, room, existing)

[tikigod311]

There is no government official that is brave enough to take out lanes of Peachtree. Not going to happen, not anytime in the next 20 years, and probably just never. I am much more interested in more realistic approaches.

If buses are currently as frequent as they are, why do we have to dedicate a lane to the streetcar?

[arjay57]

I'd say start with two or three shorter lines.

-- One could basically track Peachtree Boulevard -- Peachtree Dunwoody to the Village area or possibly Garden Hills.

-- Another would be in southern Buckhead, maybe from the Bennett Street area where it connects with the Beltline, south to Brookwood Hills. On that end it could link up with either the Arts Center station and/or possibly wind around to Atlantic Station.

-- A third option could be something that links up central Buckhead with the Beltline at Lindbergh or thereabouts. I could see it passing through Peachtree Hills and then going down the median on Peachtree Battle over to Northside Drive.

Those are all heavily developed and dense corridors. Tons of restaurants, shops and galleries to attract riders as well.

[bryantm3]

honestly, a lot of areas along peachtree street really need heavy rail service. it of course would be very expensive to tunnel under peachtree street, but hey, they did it with west peachtree in the 1970s, and they do it in new york all the time. it is disheartening to see that, of all the proposals MARTA has put on the table for heavy rail, not one of them is inside the perimeter (connect 400, the I-20 east project, heavy rail to fulton industrial— clifton corridor was light rail). the fact of the matter is that we need a backbone of heavy rail in some major areas of the city, and MARTA could receive a lot of federal funding for such a project— instead, they've rejected the idea altogether, apparently because it's too hard.

20 years down the road, we'll be wishing that we had heavy rail in areas like west midtown and the peachtree corridor in buckhead, because at that point it will have become so congested that a streetcar would be over capacity. it's a lot cheaper to go ahead and get it over with now.

the plan above is so complicated and expensive, that to me it would seem to make much more sense to just build a HRT line under peachtree and not have to worry about reducing lanes or building ramps and whatnot.

your idea is sort of neat, though, kind of a blade-runner-esque streetscape like you'd see in a sci-fi movie. it just doesn't seem to be a great solution for transit considering all the hassle you'd have to go through— you'd still have peachtree street with a similar capacity as it does today, and only a limited capacity streetcar to make up for it. see what i'm saying? i hope i'm not poo-pooing your whole idea because i think it's certainly a neat idea, it just seems to be more of a rube goldberg machine for a much simpler problem.

[bryantm3]

here's a mockup of a heavy rail line:

Peachtree Heavy Rail? - Google Maps

[testa50]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

honestly, a lot of areas along peachtree street really need heavy rail service. it of course would be very expensive to tunnel under peachtree street, but hey, they did it with west peachtree in the 1970s, and they do it in new york all the time. it is disheartening to see that, of all the proposals MARTA has put on the table for heavy rail, not one of them is inside the perimeter (connect 400, the I-20 east project, heavy rail to fulton industrial— clifton corridor was light rail). the fact of the matter is that we need a backbone of heavy rail in some major areas of the city, and MARTA could receive a lot of federal funding for such a project— instead, they've rejected the idea altogether, apparently because it's too hard.

20 years down the road, we'll be wishing that we had heavy rail in areas like west midtown and the peachtree corridor in buckhead, because at that point it will have become so congested that a streetcar would be over capacity. it's a lot cheaper to go ahead and get it over with now.

If I could just snap my fingers and make this happen, I'd probably take it over my plan (although it does nothing to improve the miserable pedestrian experience and traffic noise on Peachtree today--maybe Peachtree could be 4-laned as part of the deal). But my understanding is that the costs would also be enormous and, more importantly, HRT would be a major conflict at the four crossings I discuss in OP. What do you do with an intersecting HRT line when you get to GA 400/MARTA's Red Line? I don't see an answer to this.

the plan above is so complicated and expensive, that to me it would seem to make much more sense to just build a HRT line under peachtree and not have to worry about reducing lanes or building ramps and whatnot.

your idea is sort of neat, though, kind of a blade-runner-esque streetscape like you'd see in a sci-fi movie. it just doesn't seem to be a great solution for transit considering all the hassle you'd have to go through— you'd still have peachtree street with a similar capacity as it does today, and only a limited capacity streetcar to make up for it. see what i'm saying? i hope i'm not poo-pooing your whole idea because i think it's certainly a neat idea, it just seems to be more of a rube goldberg machine for a much simpler problem.

Well, at least someone doesn't reject it outright.

I don't think the vehicle capacity would be similar. I'm not a traffic engineer, but such a roadway would be capable of handling over 3,500 vehicles per hour in each direction. I'm sure that's a lot higher than what Peachtree St handles right now (I believe AADT is about 20,000 to 35,000 for Peachtree, depending on the segment, which includes traffic in both directions).

Also, the LRT/Streetcar would be massively more capable if it didn't mingle with traffic except at intersections. It would probably be able to consistently go between Arts Center and Buckhead in about 15-20 minutes, with delays being the exception rather than the norm. The LRT system I'm talking about and the one other people are talking about, which is just laying tracks over the right lane, are birds of a different feather.

[UrbanConquistador]

Lots of good ideas, people. I'm especially drooling over Bryantm3's heavy rail mockup. That would be very nice and I love the idea of using the old Amtrak station as Brookwood Station.

[cqholt]

If you are going to put something underground, might as well make it an LRT, HRT if possible.

He was talking about car lanes.
What is wrong with putting Peachtree Street north of Midtown on a road diet? Reduce the lanes to 2 in each direction, with a median, and separated streetcar only lane. This would create a buffer from the traffic for pedestrians, making them feel safer. Peachtree St does not need to be treated like a high-speed, high-capacity road. That's what 400, 75, & 85 are for. Peachtree St should be spruced up and made into Atlanta's main street.

[jsvh]

Peachtree should be reduced to 2 lanes plus turns. The left lane gets backed up from left turners any ways. Also Streetcar. If you want longer distance / faster travel take the existing almost parallel HRT and GA 400. There are a lot more low-hanging fruit before we need to discuss expensive and disruptive projects like digging up Peachtree for HRT or an expressway.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Peachtree should be reduced to 2 lanes plus turns. The left lane gets backed up from left turners any ways. Also Streetcar. If you want longer distance / faster travel take the existing almost parallel HRT and GA 400. There are a lot more low-hanging fruit before we need to discuss expensive and disruptive projects like digging up Peachtree for HRT or an expressway.

Exactly, the Peachtree Streetcar should be viewed as a last-mile connection from Arts center and Buckhead stations to the developments along Peachtree St. It should not be viewed as high-speed transit. Ideally, someone would ride the streetcar to the nearest HRT station, then continue their commute via high-speed, HRT. The streetcar should at most travel at 35 mph, allowing passengers to view the street life and street level retail.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

the plan above is so complicated and expensive, that to me it would seem to make much more sense to just build a HRT line under peachtree and not have to worry about reducing lanes or building ramps and whatnot.

your idea is sort of neat, though, kind of a blade-runner-esque streetscape like you'd see in a sci-fi movie. it just doesn't seem to be a great solution for transit considering all the hassle you'd have to go through— you'd still have peachtree street with a similar capacity as it does today, and only a limited capacity streetcar to make up for it. see what i'm saying? i hope i'm not poo-pooing your whole idea because i think it's certainly a neat idea, it just seems to be more of a rube goldberg machine for a much simpler problem.

Oh, I don't think what I'm suggesting would be nearly as expensive at tunneling in a heavy rail line.

I'm not suggesting a comprehensive heavy rail system, but the bones of a streetcar system (like the one downtown) that would be focused on "last mile" connectivity.

The routes I'm suggesting -- and that's just off the top of my head -- would be relatively easy ones, and they'd leverage connections with MARTA and the Beltline. A few miles here and there in heavily developed districts could make a huge difference. Eventually you'd probably connect up these smaller segments but in the very near terms you'd be serving highly developed corridors.

In my opinion, you'd also be fostering a mindset that encourages people to do at least some of their local travel by streetcar rather by driving 100% of the time.