Coca-Cola eyes big move downtown (Atlanta, Douglas: cheap apartments, high school, moving)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Even within affluent areas like Walton district? Lassiter? etc.

Yep. Even there some people are better off than others.

[kferq]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Those two would be a possibility, but lets not pretend that they are as good as the East Cobb and North Fulton schools.

***For the love of God, don't bring up that garbage AJC article which tries to claim intown schools are just as good. That "research(sic)" is downright embarrassing.***

Embarrassing in what way? That it does not match your expectations? Good in what way? Academic, social or extracurricular? It is an embarrassing mistake to ignorantly attack research without understanding precisely what was studied. What the research shows is that children from backgrounds that predict good academic students (higher academic achievement in the parents primarily), perform as well academically in Atlanta in town schools as in good suburban neighborhoods. Note that this result only applies to children from good academic backgrounds and not for all children. I interview for the Schools Committee of the Harvard Club of Atlanta and have interviewed in both areas over the past 5 years. Academically, the very top of the in town schools and the top of the East Cobb and North Fulton classes are very similar. The kids I interview in the in town schools generally have one parent (or the aunt or grandparent who raised them) with a history of high achievement academically. They take more college courses (GA State especially) and fewer APs on Int Bacc courses compared to the suburban kids. A motivated kid from a good background will do well in either school. How a less well motivated child or one from a weaker background will perform is another question.

Now in terms of extracurricular activities, there is no question that the big suburban schools offer a lot more. A lot of the outstanding extracurricular activities I see in town are not based at their schools (write and sell computer apps, act or dance with a professional company, work responsible positions with major employer etc., play a role usually taken by an adult in a major house of worship), where as I see a lot more school based outstanding extracurricular activities in suburban or private school (All state orchestra, State wide recognition as an athlete, national debate champion).

Socially, kids in the Atlanta City Schools outside of Grady and North Atlanta (I have not interviewed any kids from the small in town charter schools or South Fulton), seem to have a tougher time because they stand out when they are academically excellent. This appears to me to be harder for the black students than whites or other minorities. One delightfully intelligent, African American student's parents moved into the Grady area from Carver, so she could be around a larger number of high performing kids.

Parents have to understand their own child's strengths and weaknesses and understand when a change in venue is best for the child. Westminster gets more kids accepted into Harvard then all the North Fulton/East Cobb schools combined, but that school is clearly not the best place even for every high performing child.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Yep. Even there some people are better off than others.

At what point does income no longer effect academic achievement? I mean, for a district like one we are discussing, would you expect someone from a family earning $250,000 a year to really outperform someone from a family earning $150,000 a year? I do recognize the impact of income on educational achievement at low levels, but certainly this levels off at some point.

I still don't believe this explains the consistent 200-300 gap.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

At what point does income no longer effect academic achievement? I mean, for a district like one we are discussing, would you expect someone from a family earning $250,000 a year to really outperform someone from a family earning $150,000 a year? I do recognize the impact of income on educational achievement at low levels, but certainly this levels off at some point.

I still don't believe this explains the consistent 200-300 gap.

Tired of doing your research for you. You go find me the study that says the color of someones skin by itself causes (not just correlates with) a negative impact on academic performance in a statistically significant way.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by kferq

Embarrassing in what way? That it does not match your expectations? Good in what way? Academic, social or extracurricular? It is an embarrassing mistake to ignorantly attack research without understanding precisely what was studied. What the research shows is that children from backgrounds that predict good academic students (higher academic achievement in the parents primarily), perform as well academically in Atlanta in town schools as in good suburban neighborhoods.

Easy there sport and cool that tone. I understand what was studied. I understand the shortcomings in the methodology and anyone with a background in research would laugh at the way this data is presented.

It ignores that fact that far fewer intown students take the SAT (even white students) than the students in the suburbs where the percentage is nearly 100%. Essentially 500+ data points which represented the entire population of one set was compared a data set of about 55 (out of a population of about 80). How do you think this skews the data? Of course, this is ignored and unaccounted for in the research. If 100% of the white students were compared to 100% of white students then you would have a vaild comparison. However, this is not the case which makes the results highly questionable.

Note that this result only applies to children from good academic backgrounds and not for all children. I interview for the Schools Committee of the Harvard Club of Atlanta and have interviewed in both areas over the past 5 years. Academically, the very top of the in town schools and the top of the East Cobb and North Fulton classes are very similar. The kids I interview in the in town schools generally have one parent (or the aunt or grandparent who raised them) with a history of high achievement academically. They take more college courses (GA State especially) and fewer APs on Int Bacc courses compared to the suburban kids. A motivated kid from a good background will do well in either school. How a less well motivated child or one from a weaker background will perform is another question.

So the top 1% is equal to the top 1%. I haven't really debated this and have actually agreed with this premise. What about the other 99%? Do you believe that they are equal? I certainly don't.

Have you talked to that kid in the middle 10%? Do you think you would be as impressed from a kid from the northern burbs or downtown?

Why type a long response that is 90% irrelevant to the discussion?

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Tired of doing your research for you. You go find me the study that says the color of someones skin by itself causes (not just correlates with) a negative impact on academic performance in a statistically significant way.

I think this could be a healthy discussion, but people getting huffy and sensitive will likely de-rail it.

If you don't want to participate in an adult conversation, you don't have to.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I think this could be a healthy discussion, but people getting huffy and sensitive will likely de-rail it.

If you don't want to participate in an adult conversation, you don't have to.

Yes, I am sure you would favor a "discussion" without any facts. Especially if it required you to try to go look something up. Your ever shifting arguments have been refuted by multiple people with different sources. Now that you have shifted the topic to this thinly veiled racist claim of skin color causing poor academic performance, please go do a bit of your own research and contribute something to the discussion.

[jeoff]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Also, interesting that blacks continue to lag behind on SATs by an average of 200-300 points.

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

At what point does income no longer effect academic achievement? I mean, for a district like one we are discussing, would you expect someone from a family earning $250,000 a year to really outperform someone from a family earning $150,000 a year? I do recognize the impact of income on educational achievement at low levels, but certainly this levels off at some point.

I still don't believe this explains the consistent 200-300 gap.

Actually, I think that the test scores are pretty consistent with the idea that income is the most significant factor, especially when you look at the Grady scores. Grady draws from 5 elementary schools 3 are wealthy and predominantly white, 1 is poorer and black, and 1 is more middle class and black. At Grady there is close to a 500pt gap in scores. In the suburbs, in which the range of incomes is presumably smaller, the gap is half that. Even within the suburbs, it is not inconceivable to think that a higher percentage of black students started out in poorer areas, either outside of, or within district.

[joey86]

Please start a new thread for this topic. Or just stop. That would be okay too.

[joey86]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I think this could be a healthy discussion, but people getting huffy and sensitive will likely de-rail it.

If you don't want to participate in an adult conversation, you don't have to.

Derail it? It went off the tracks long ago and calling people sensitive or saying their ideas are crap doesn't lend maturity to the conversation. Some of us would have appreciated that "adult conversation" you speak of.