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Old 06-11-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
30,710 posts, read 31,938,027 times
Reputation: 13788

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Um, HELLO! The NEC already does have what qualifies as HSR! While they're looking toward 220mph trains in the future, that's not what Atlanta to Charlotte would need to be for a while. At best, we would have 125mph trains, but probably they'd max out at 90mph to begin with. Even once we had 220mph trains, the slower ones would probably stay around as the lower-cost alternative, as well as serving more intermediate cities.
The Acela only runs over 100mph in very short segments. That's not "true" HSR. If it were, then there wouldn't be a $151 billion proposal on the table to build true HSR, would there?
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,214 posts, read 5,817,657 times
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WRONG! The Acela runs up to 135mph on most of its Washington-New York trip, and over 110mph on most of its trip east of New Haven. New Haven to New York is restricted to 75mph, but that's still extremely competitive for driving.
Again, Atlanta to Charlotte wouldn't be true HSR either to begin with. You seem to fail to grasp that concept.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
30,710 posts, read 31,938,027 times
Reputation: 13788
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
WRONG! The Acela runs up to 135mph on most of its Washington-New York trip, and over 110mph on most of its trip east of New Haven. New Haven to New York is restricted to 75mph, but that's still extremely competitive for driving.
Again, Atlanta to Charlotte wouldn't be true HSR either to begin with. You seem to fail to grasp that concept.
And you're getting this information from where?

Amtrak to Test New Top Speed of 165 m.p.h - WNYC

Quote:
Though Acela service tops out at 150 m.p.h. for about 34 miles in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, average operating speeds are lower: 81.8 m.p.h. between NY and Washington, D.C. and 75.4 m.p.h between NY and Boston.
Amtrak to replace Acela with faster trains in Northeast - Philly.com

Quote:
Amtrak currently operates 20 Acela Express trains, the fastest in its fleet. The trains can travel up to 150 m.p.h., though because of track and signal restrictions, they average only 83 m.p.h. between Washington and New York and only 72 m.p.h. between New York and Boston.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,214 posts, read 5,817,657 times
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You do know the difference between max and average speed, right? I've not only ridden the corridor, I also have seen speed maps and timetables produced by people who are authorities on the matter. Engineers (the driving kind), Engineers (the building kind), Conductors, planners, managers, etc. Acela moves at well over 100mph, for most of its route. Now you're just trying to lie to make your point.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
30,710 posts, read 31,938,027 times
Reputation: 13788
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
You do know the difference between max and average speed, right? I've not only ridden the corridor, I also have seen speed maps and timetables produced by people who are authorities on the matter. Engineers (the driving kind), Engineers (the building kind), Conductors, planners, managers, etc. Acela moves at well over 100mph, for most of its route. Now you're just trying to lie to make your point.
Glad to see you posted some sources...
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,214 posts, read 5,817,657 times
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Ok, fine, but you'll have to settle for a Google map made by another user and for East of New Haven only. Most information like that, is shared in confidence because it's considered "sensitive" by the railroads, so other than grabbing a GPS and watching your speed, there aren't any sources.
NEC Acela speed limits - Google Maps
Anything on that map that's green, is 110mph or greater for the Acela.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:18 PM
 
3,822 posts, read 3,979,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
When I was talking about your "crystal ball," I was referring to your statement that "the choo choo is coming." You stated that as if it's a done deal. It's not even close to being a done deal for Boston, New York City, Philadelphia and Washington, DC, so what on earth makes you think HSR is coming to the South? This is completely separate and apart from the issue of population density.



Yes, $200. That's about what tickets cost now. You can't build new infrastructure, hire personnel (unionized personnel), and then expect to charge $15 for a bullet train to Charlotte. That's completely unrealistic. The Acela is expensive and so is HSR in Europe. What makes you think HSR elsewhere would be an exception?
Why so grumpy about infrastructure planning for the future in a high growth corridor that happens to be southern? There are various route, cost and capacity models to be researched and studied but a fast(er) choo-choo is coming to the south.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:53 PM
 
31,670 posts, read 33,511,191 times
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Quote:
Though Acela service tops out at 150 m.p.h. for about 34 miles in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, average operating speeds are lower: 81.8 m.p.h. between NY and Washington, D.C. and 75.4 m.p.h between NY and Boston.
I hate to say it but that is pathetic. The Chinese, the Japanese and the Europeans are running trains twice that fast. In the meantime we're still dinking around talking about building an MMPT that has no trains at all.

These other countries are going to blow us off the map.
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:42 PM
 
9,731 posts, read 9,625,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
No they won't. Those towns are ridiculously small. The intermediate towns between Washington and Boston (end to end in the NEC) are Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City. That's a very different situation than having Clemson and Greenville as your intermediate cities.
...The Greenville-Spartanburg area has over one million people, is a growing base of international industry (BMW, Michelin, etc) and is home to one of the fastest-growing airports in the country while Clemson is home to one of the nation's premier institutions of higher learning that has an enrollment of nearly 21,000 students and a large 80,000-plus seat football stadium, and Gainesville is already a regional center of commerce for Northeast Georgia, home to two universities of note in Brenau University and Gainesville State College and is a fast-growing exurban bedroom community of Atlanta.

By no means are fast-growing and popular areas "ridiculously small" areas that no one ever visits, something that is evidenced by those towns already being the sites of stops on the existing Amtrak Crescent train line.

Just because you do not have not personally been to any of those places does not mean that there are not millions of other people who do not go to places every year.

The Chicago-South Shore regional commuter rail line runs shuttles between Downtown Chicago and far-exurban South Bend, Indiana (nearly 100 miles) that are very-popular with college football fans attending home football games at the University of Notre Dame in the fall.

With so many hundreds-of-thousands of Clemson alumni and fans living in the Atlanta, Greenville-Spartanburg and Charlotte regions, upgraded and expanded passenger rail service between Atlanta and Charlotte would instantly become a very-popular mode of travel to and from Clemson home football (and other athletic) games and competitions.

That does not even take into account the increasingly-popular tourist destination that fast-growing Downtown Greenville, South Carolina has become.

Downtown Greenville, SC - YouTube

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And nobody's going to want to spend $200+ to a ride a train. Or even $120 to ride a train. They can drive for cheaper. And it's not like Greenville, SC is Manhattan where you can just jump out of the train station, hail a cab, and then carry on with your business. You need a car in virtually every city in the Southeast. So it just makes sense to drive. Besides, when you start talking about fares in the $100+ range, it's easier to just fly at that point.
...By the time high-speed rail comes into fruition between Atlanta and the Northeast by way of the Carolinas (probably sometime within the next couple-of-decades or so), one likely will not have to spend $200+ to ride a train over short and intermediate distances as much of the cost of a train ride will most likely be subsidized by the numerous real estate investments (for-profit leasing-out of transit-owned properties around stations; property tax revenues from new development along line and around stations, etc) along the line.
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:03 PM
 
9,731 posts, read 9,625,135 times
Reputation: 6937
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1MARTAFan View Post
Well, you've convinced me. We could finally have that much needed multi-billion HSR link to Toccoa and Clemson.

Those 12 people per day who use the existing Amtrak service certainly justify upgrading Toccoa to HSR. Add to it the 15 people per day from Clemson and you are really on to something.

Very persuasive.

*Actual numbers taken from Amtrak's ridership numbers.
...But you fail to mention that the reason why there are currently so few people riding the train from those stops is because only one train per day currently services those stops in each direction.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/572/728/...ule-011413.pdf

On the whole, Amtrak is experiencing record ridership as Amtrak set a new all-time record with 31.2 million passengers in fiscal year 2012 (the fiscal year ending September 30, 2012), the 9th such ridership record in the past 10 years.

Amongst the highlights of Amtrak's highest-ridership year ever in 2012:

>Amtrak set 12 consecutive monthly ridership records; July was the single best month in the history of Amtrak

>Northeast Corridor had best year ever with more than 11.4 million passengers

>State-supported and other short distance routes had best year ever with 15.1 million passengers

>All 15 long-distance routes saw an increase in riders and combined had best ridership in 19 years with 4.7 million passengers

>From FY 2000 to FY 2012, Amtrak ridership is up 49 percent

http://http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/6...ATK-12-092.pdf

More people are riding trains nowadays and even more people will ride trains when more trains are available for them to ride.
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