Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually, crime was VERY high during the depression...
Anyway, pinning crime on just ONE grievence is inane. There are a multitude of factors that contribute.
Economics (and, not just poverty or lack of money) is one. Sure, you can use WV as an opposing example, but I can also say that they're "working poor" or that the cost of living there is MUCH less. I know in several small towns in Georgia that used to rely on textile mills, certain crimes like drug use has increased. Why? People don't have jobs to fill their time; it isn't just paying the bills that's an issue it's BOREDOM! Ask anyone who's unemployed: you come up with CRAZY ideas to pass the time. When employed, however, you productively use your time and become exhausted at the end of the day.
.
Further from the truth. The old West Virginia scenario's and assumptions. Charleston for example, the Capitol of WV vs. Atlanta,
Granted you cannot use Buckhead, well maybe you could.
You will find that the home you live in here may cost up and over 20% more in Charleston and the only difference is the trailer behind you.
Income tax in Kanawha is more, Sales tax is more, Gasoline costs more, mostly due to taxation. Now, move further up in WV to the Eastern Panhandle in Martinsburg and Charles Town, and add another 15%. Move to Jefferson County and good luck finding a townhome in a "zoned" area for less than 600k.
The difference lie's in how folks look at crime and attempting to find excuses vs., logical rational. Oh, I'm unemployed so I guess I will fire up an ice rock. The Gansta's are going out to jack a car and rob a store, because they are bored and suffering from stress. Joe Bob figures he will go out and shoot up street signs and vandalize, well because he is suffering too.
It comes down to personal respect, values, and in most cases upbringing. As I stated before there are also BAD people. We can use the big bad urban city as a scapegoat, but if you have it comes down to thugs of all walks of life being taught that materialism is the end all, values don't matter, and if caught find some type of excuse such as poverty, oppression, unemployment, etc. It is obvious that I am fighting a losing battle on this topic as I will never be able to find an excuse for thuggery.
Must be because I was "working poor" from the cheap part of the world. Thus, meaning criminal behaviour there is bad, whereas urban centers must be the cause as the criminal does not have to face any consequence, just the victim since it is of course, society's fault.. Done
According the the census, a home in Charleston cost 100K. In Jefferson county, it costs 116K, NOT 600K as you imply. In fact, the most expensive one I could find in a real estate search was 500K and it was 5000 sq ft. Please, don't try to lie especially if stats can be retrieved easily.
Anyway, the point of the post wasn't to "excuse" behavior, but to explain why people may do stupid **** when unemployed. You can scream that people should "emphasize values" and the like all you want, but I can also say that my baby should know physics out of the womb. How will they know if you don't teach them the fundamentals? And how will their babies? How will a student learn physics if his physics professor doesn't know physics? Basically, if the mother came from an environment thrashed by bad economic policy and taught her son/daughter what SHE knew, then it should be no surprise why the cycle continues.
And, we throw people in prison with no structure at all. Give them TV, 3 squares, etc. but nothing structural, especially with male inmates. Women are far more likely to be rehabilitated than men, and there is a reason. In women's prisons, societal rehab is emphasized, since many of them are mothers. They are taught job skills, social skills, anger management, and how to "weed out" bad influences. In men's prisons, we don't emphasize this at all. We throw them in, toss the key, let them watch TV for a few months, have 3 free meals and a cot, let them SOCIALIZE WITH EXPERIENCED CRIMINALS, and let them out. How lovely. You've appeased some Old Testament value of crime and punishment, but you haven't prevented crime at all. You haven't taught them anything about structure. You've just bred a tougher criminal!
Things that should be changed are:
1) Economic policies that encourage productive work and less welfare. Also, welfare that is given out should be given to those in school more readily than it is now. This allows people to better themselves while not dropping out for a job or becoming an infamous "welfare queen."
2) School systems need an extensive overhaul. School choice should be extended so that poor kids used to seeing thugish activity in their neighborhood can be pulled away from it for the day and see the "other side of the fence," and get a look at the greener grass. That way, if they aren't getting that enrichment from home, they can get a little bit of it from school and want more of these values you want to instill.
3) Less laws. I know, I sound CRA-ZAY here, but you don't need anymore. Cops concentrate on little **** because it makes the city money (jaywalking tickets when no cars are present, for example). We should have them focusing on protecting citizens, not making a profit (that's not the purpose of government). If you have cops less focused on bureaucratic procedures and laws that do nothing more than generate revenue, then we can throw REAL criminals in jail (murderers, rapists, etc.) and respond to situations faster. I don't care if someone is lighting a blunt in their home (yeah, I'm fine with legalizing drugs...), doing weird sexual stuff (besides rape or the like) in their home, or is listening to music loudly. I care that people are SAFE. I care that their individuals rights and space aren't violated.
We don't do that here, unfortunately. Who cares about spending some money now and preventing a murderer from murdering in the future? We'd rather crackdown on 20 year olds drinking, banning gay marriage, the "war on drugs" that hasn't had success at all, and other crappy policy that obviously isn't working. Why not try something new?
According the the census, a home in Charleston cost 100K. In Jefferson county, it costs 116K, NOT 600K as you imply. In fact, the most expensive one I could find in a real estate search was 500K and it was 5000 sq ft. Please, don't try to lie especially if stats can be retrieved easily.
Anyway, the point of the post wasn't to "excuse" behavior, but to explain why people may do stupid **** when unemployed. You can scream that people should "emphasize values" and the like all you want, but I can also say that my baby should know physics out of the womb. How will they know if you don't teach them the fundamentals? And how will their babies? How will a student learn physics if his physics professor doesn't know physics? Basically, if the mother came from an environment thrashed by bad economic policy and taught her son/daughter what SHE knew, then it should be no surprise why the cycle continues.
And, we throw people in prison with no structure at all. Give them TV, 3 squares, etc. but nothing structural, especially with male inmates. Women are far more likely to be rehabilitated than men, and there is a reason. In women's prisons, societal rehab is emphasized, since many of them are mothers. They are taught job skills, social skills, anger management, and how to "weed out" bad influences. In men's prisons, we don't emphasize this at all. We throw them in, toss the key, let them watch TV for a few months, have 3 free meals and a cot, let them SOCIALIZE WITH EXPERIENCED CRIMINALS, and let them out. How lovely. You've appeased some Old Testament value of crime and punishment, but you haven't prevented crime at all. You haven't taught them anything about structure. You've just bred a tougher criminal!
Things that should be changed are:
1) Economic policies that encourage productive work and less welfare. Also, welfare that is given out should be given to those in school more readily than it is now. This allows people to better themselves while not dropping out for a job or becoming an infamous "welfare queen."
2) School systems need an extensive overhaul. School choice should be extended so that poor kids used to seeing thugish activity in their neighborhood can be pulled away from it for the day and see the "other side of the fence," and get a look at the greener grass. That way, if they aren't getting that enrichment from home, they can get a little bit of it from school and want more of these values you want to instill.
3) Less laws. I know, I sound CRA-ZAY here, but you don't need anymore. Cops concentrate on little **** because it makes the city money (jaywalking tickets when no cars are present, for example). We should have them focusing on protecting citizens, not making a profit (that's not the purpose of government). If you have cops less focused on bureaucratic procedures and laws that do nothing more than generate revenue, then we can throw REAL criminals in jail (murderers, rapists, etc.) and respond to situations faster. I don't care if someone is lighting a blunt in their home (yeah, I'm fine with legalizing drugs...), doing weird sexual stuff (besides rape or the like) in their home, or is listening to music loudly. I care that people are SAFE. I care that their individuals rights and space aren't violated.
We don't do that here, unfortunately. Who cares about spending some money now and preventing a murderer from murdering in the future? We'd rather crackdown on 20 year olds drinking, banning gay marriage, the "war on drugs" that hasn't had success at all, and other crappy policy that obviously isn't working. Why not try something new?
In men's prisons, we don't emphasize this at all. We throw them in, toss the key, let them watch TV for a few months, have 3 free meals and a cot, let them SOCIALIZE WITH EXPERIENCED CRIMINALS, and let them out. How lovely. You've appeased some Old Testament value of crime and punishment, but you haven't prevented crime at all. You haven't taught them anything about structure. You've just bred a tougher criminal!
I'm glad someone else said it. I truly believe that but if you say that for instance here in Texas people would think you're a squishy liberal wuss with crazy ideas. Yeah, the person has committed a crime and should be punished but that's not all there is to it. Let's try to rehabilitate and integrate them assuming they'll be part of society again. This benefits them and ALL of society at large. Who woulda thunk it?
We co-exist but really don’t get along. Most corporations in Atlanta will have a mixed group of individuals working for them and when you go out to the different major lunch venues, you’ll see that although black and white people go to lunch together, chances are in most cases if a table has 12 people form the same office, the blacks will sit on one side of the table and the whites another.
I can't refute your observations, and I'll take you at your word. I can, however, tell you that my observations aren't the same as yours and in fact tend to be the opposite. I also wonder what your experience in other parts of the US has been. I lived in New England which is lilly white, and I have lived in NY and traveled all over for business. Atlanta has a diverse mix of people and it is pervasive throughout many businesses. You also tend to see many more people here socialize with a diverse group of people, and much more so than some other parts of the US. I have seen people socialize and generally get along well. People tend to view other people at work based on other work related things and not on race, at least in my company and others with which I work.
As for Europe, I've traveled all over Europe (my mother grew up in Eurpoe and became a US citizen) and they have TERRIBLE race issues there, with not only defacto segregation, but legal and institutional racisim. To hold up Europe as a guiding beacon of sophistication, especially with regard to race seems a bit of a stretch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movingfarawayfromyou
That’s why in Atlanta instead of someone saying my friend John, they say my black friend John.
I have 3 children, one in high school, and since we moved to Atlanta recently, they have made new friends. We have always encouraged our kids to choose their friends wisely and based on the person's actions and character. Each of them has more than one friend who is non-white, and not because they have racial quotas for friends, but because they get along with the kids, have things in common, and enjoy hanging out. I have NEVER heard any of my children refer to someone as their "black friend" or "white friend"...only their "friend". That seems to be the case with most young folks here. You tend to see many groups of black and white friends hanging out.
According the the census, a home in Charleston cost 100K. In Jefferson county, it costs 116K, NOT 600K as you imply. In fact, the most expensive one I could find in a real estate search was 500K and it was 5000 sq ft. Please, don't try to lie especially if stats can be retrieved easily.
This is off topic, but to redeem myself from being called a liar....
First of all one click on the computer does not redeem stats by God.
Ever been to WV? Im from there, 4 generations, still go there once a month.
You can tour Shepherdstown / Harpers Ferry in Jeff County. Trust me, homes are north of 4,5, and 600K for comparable neighborhood, emphasis on neighborhoods in the Atlanta that are 3,4,and 500k. Same for Charleston, yes you can find your 116k, heck you can hind 50k but same with Atlanta. Charleston neighborhood comparison, which by the way is not as new nor "zoned" you will still drop more $$$$ than here. Add the other cost, net higher than Atlanta.
If you would like, maybe I can take you on a county for county tour in a straight line instead of running in circles.
We were debating crime and behavior, not the fact that I am a "Liar" One just has to love the minds of elitist, if you become frustrated trying to drive your point as the only correct measure you begin to trend towards accusations and name calling.
It's funny, though I may agree with "some" of your comments and disagree with others I can do it without attempting to do so with accusations.
Apparently poor people generally watch more tv than people who are not so, and poor black people watch more tv than anyone else in the country-more than twice as much as middle class white children. This can't be good, as the media has a horrible view of blacks(men and boys especially). It seems like poor children need something better to do than watch tv. What wholesome alternative entertainment options are available for poor children in Atlanta? Apparently too few.
Most large cities have many issues and I do not think Atlanta is any different. However what I do think is that Atlanta is in a unique position to make many positive changes and influences in the lives of blacks who have not began to value education, work, and being a productive citizen.
We do have a major issue within the black community in particular and as a young African American I believe that I am more than qualified to speak on this issue. People like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and even the NAACP are no longer relevant to our times because all they do is jump on issues that have no relevance to the current plight of my generation. When these folk and organizations began to come out with some solid solutions on preventing crime, reducing teen pregnancy, changing values in our community than perhaps then, will I give them a totally different grade. As of now they stand at an 'F'.
For example, it has always bothered me whenever a white cop shoots and kills a black person (in many of these cases that I have been exposed to, the suspect was at fault) the black community and shakedown kings Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton calls for protest, boycotts and outright crazy media coverage is given to these issues with no or little substance to them. However, when a black person is killed by another black person all we do is; NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING! No protest against these kinds of crimes, no national media coverage, no protesting of the perpetrators crimes and guess what? No Al or Jesse! This is alarming to be.
It just shows the level of complacency and apathy that my community (Blacks) suffer from. What we need are changes in values. Changing our youth's ideas from the hip hop culture to a culture which embraces education, hard work, financial literacy, and family. Until then we will continue to hurt ourselves.
I am going to tell you what the problem is and I am not going to BS anybody. The problem is with this African American culture that not only accepts ignorance but celebrates ignorance. I am not a racist but everytime I try to watch BET(like tonight), I can get over how stupid these shows are and how negative these black movies are. I was watching parts of a movie today on BET and sure enough, I was just waiting for the part where someone pulls a gun and kills somebody else, TOO MUCH NEGATIVITY!!. Then, you have kids growing up with no fathers and very bad mothers, their minds are being polluted 24/7 with all this garbage, next thing you see a kid holding up a gas station or murdering people over a pair of shoes because he saw some idiotic rapper on TV talking about how many diamonds he has or how much money he makes. Where are the black people like Barrack Obama? Seriously, I want to see more people like him, people that are smart, intelligent and articulate. There is this idiotic show on BET called Hell Date where black people go out on a date, then something happens and one of the people get mad and start throwing food at the other person. I mean, do these people really think acting ghetto and having no class is FUNNY? Ignorance is the problem!
Another Good Post! Str8 to the point.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
