South side suburban density (Atlanta, Alpharetta: employment, construction, college)

[workaholics]

While northern suburbs continue to add density, it seems Atlanta's southern suburbs are not. Once you get south of Clayton County and parts of South Fulton, the southern suburbs are incredibly sprawly and there is no continuous area of development like you would see along the GA 400 corridor for instance. I grew up in Newnan, and while we considered ourselves to be a suburban city, there was still this huge gap between the development in Coweta County and areas north of Fairburn and Union City that separated us from Atlanta's urban area. I always felt it was strange how that development pattern on I-85 south has played out.

I'm sure race has played an unfortunate role in this. The suburbs directly south of Atlanta are overwhelmingly black while areas like Newnan, PTC, Fayetteville and McDonough are still primarily white. It seems like a buffer zone naturally developed- this was not an issue as the north side was being developed. But as norther suburbs become more dense and more expensive, wouldn't it make sense to fill in the gaps on the south side? Do you see that ever happening as our region continues to grow?

[Lady's Man]

Coweta county is too far south. If you are working anywhere north of the airport, why would you choose to live there? I'd say some areas are already changing. Hapeville and College Park are turning around, thanks to young airport workers that want to live in a more urban area. Several movie production companies have been moving into Fayette county. South Fulton and Clayco are still pretty dysfunctional, however.

[cwkimbro]

I've always found that gap interesting too! Part of me thinks it is better for the gap to always exist and let things densify on both sides. That way the space in between doesn't add congestion, just a few minutes driving...

Of course more people get on and off the roads in between... it would be nearly impossible to live that far away and commute into town.

The core of the reason that hasn't happened is jobs... and the reciprocal relationship for companies locating near certain potential employees.

Most people on the northside don't commute into town. That is why so many people can live in the northside. The core problem the Southside is they are close to their max commute capacity into town w/o creating more job centers. In urban planning cities often have a "favored quarter" where there is a relationship between high paying jobs and high skilled workers growing in a single direction to continue to be near each other. Most companies don't want to locate in another side of town, because they can't attract those potential employees.

I'd say one of 2 things would change the trend:
1) Create more commute capacity into town (ie. freeway widening, commuter trains.... we don't need to get into a debate on what the capacity is, but simply... a higher capacity needs to exist)
2) Find a niche market for businesses to take root and start a recriprocal relationship between high skilled jobs and high skilled residents. This is a bit harder to do. The aerotropolis idea is probably the best bet. Getting the headquarters for Porshe is a start. They will attract high paying employees to move further south, set down roots, and hopefully other companies will follow realizing there are potential employees for them. Delta has long been one of the main drivers for high skilled employees on the southside.

[cqholt]

Maybe if Aeropolis gets developed, it will create another job center on the southside.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Maybe if Aeropolis gets developed, it will create another job center on the southside.

What's up with that project anyway? Anyone have an update?

[Ant131531]

No business centers in the southern part of the metro.

[viningsgt]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I've always found that gap interesting too! Part of me thinks it is better for the gap to always exist and let things densify on both sides. That way the space in between doesn't add congestion, just a few minutes driving...

Of course more people get on and off the roads in between... it would be nearly impossible to live that far away and commute into town.

The core of the reason that hasn't happened is jobs... and the reciprocal relationship for companies locating near certain potential employees.

Most people on the northside don't commute into town. That is why so many people can live in the northside. The core problem the Southside is they are close to their max commute capacity into town w/o creating more job centers. In urban planning cities often have a "favored quarter" where there is a relationship between high paying jobs and high skilled workers growing in a single direction to continue to be near each other. Most companies don't want to locate in another side of town, because they can't attract those potential employees.

I'd say one of 2 things would change the trend:
1) Create more commute capacity into town (ie. freeway widening, commuter trains.... we don't need to get into a debate on what the capacity is, but simply... a higher capacity needs to exist)
2) Find a niche market for businesses to take root and start a recriprocal relationship between high skilled jobs and high skilled residents. This is a bit harder to do. The aerotropolis idea is probably the best bet. Getting the headquarters for Porshe is a start. They will attract high paying employees to move further south, set down roots, and hopefully other companies will follow realizing there are potential employees for them. Delta has long been one of the main drivers for high skilled employees on the southside.

Yep, I think this sums it up. If you live in Coweta or Fayette, your only feasible commute options are the airport and maybe downtown or Cumberland. Perimeter, Buckhead, Alpharetta, and even Midtown aren't sustainable for a 9-5er. However, on the North side you obviously have a lot more options.

[joey86]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

What's up with that project anyway? Anyone have an update?

Porsche is finally picking up the pace after an almost year long stall on construction of their HQ. Hopefully more news will be coming soon but I think Aerotropolis will pan out a good bit slower than the developer planned on. Maybe once others see Porsche actually open their HQ they will consider moving there as well but as of now I don't think there is very much confidence in the project.

Fingers crossed that it works out. A job center next to the airport would be wonderful. This and Fort McPherson would be very transformative.

[kferq]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

No business centers in the southern part of the metro.

From the list of Metro Atlantas top 10 employment centers, http://www.atlantaregional.com/File%...12_Workers.pdf, Hartsfield with 86,463 jobs in a 3 mile radius (2012 numbers) is the main employment center in the south side and it is where most of the employment growth is going to come. If the Fort McPherson redevelopment goes well, it could be a very good job center.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by kferq

From the list of Metro Atlantas top 10 employment centers, http://www.atlantaregional.com/File%...12_Workers.pdf, Hartsfield with 86,463 jobs in a 3 mile radius (2012 numbers) is the main employment center in the south side and it is where most of the employment growth is going to come. If the Fort McPherson redevelopment goes well, it could be a very good job center.

I'm glad you mentioned this. The more I look at the minute details on the ground, the more I want Mcpherson to take off... The problem is there needs to be a better catalyst to give a company to locate there.

From a planning stand point... The reason I like the project site is with the right infrastructure tweaks it is actually highly accessible for commuters/commuter capacity.

Commuters on the southside on 85 and 75 can access it via Langford pkwy -before- the downtown connector merge (the bottleneck choke point).

This is largely what initially made Midtown and Buckhead pop up. They were places commuters could access -before- the major bottlenecks.

Langford pkwy to I-285 West actually makes the site accessibly to some high values employees that live in Cobb.

The major problem is there is no good connection going east, northeast or north of the city.

One problem with the airport... It brings in high paying jobs from companies like Delta, Chik-fil-a, and nor Porsche... but many of the jobs in the totals are low-paid hourly positions at the airport itself. :/

I also forgot one thing/idea....

Sometimes new industries that don't have a certain well-formed employee base in one part of town might move in. I mention this, because of the new film studios. It might help create that reciprocal relationship between employees and residents.

That industry needs lots of space on cheap land.