Is extending MARTA to the suburbs really beneficial to Atlanta? (Macon: crime, construction)

[avbanks]

Originally Posted by cqholt

You can find the necessary info MARTA > About Marta > Planning and on the connect 400 facebook page.

All I found was the old poll of 183 people... I saw no new change in sentiment..

[avbanks]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I don't necessarily see a trend of great paying jobs wanting to locate by mass transit. Usually great pay equates to great cars and they'd rather drive. Are you from some NE city?

Maybe this assessment is true of the Southeast but definitely not in other regions.

[SAAN]

This back and forth YES we WANT IT vs NO WE DONT will go on for MARTA until 2030 until we see 1 new station opened. Unless gas goes to $4-6 and stays there, there will not be any votes from N Fulton in a majority for MARTA to come up there. While there are alot of people who do want it up there and see all the benefits of it going to windward, there is a great majority that dont want it there due to ignorance/prejudices, fears, or straight up dont want transit in there neighborhood.

Sadly this same exact thread will exist in 2025 like one did 10 years ago to go with all the cool maps of where transit could go and get your hopes up for great transit in the future in Metro Atlanta, and like now we will have the same cool map saying Great Idea and not one step closer to 1 line being built.

[cwkimbro]

The place you are going wrong is your not thinking about why people and businesses locate the way they do.

You're not thinking about the geographic areas where potential employees can come from for businesses via commuting capacity.

Basically in the last decade the geographic areas where people can commute from is shrinking from traffic and commuting capacity has mostly remained the same during a period of growth.

As congestion increases employers consider newer, smaller areas that still have access to the right employees. Therefore, by adding capacity (in any form) allows more growth in the core.

The key is to add capacity and increase the geographic foot print individuals can feasibly commute into town. When given the opportunity most businesses will want to be as centralized as possible and have the highest level of access. As it is now they are picking smaller regions and smaller amounts of potential employees.

Even intown this has driven growth patterns for decades. Midtown was a suburban retail area just several decades ago, however it benefits from having access to GA 400, I-85, and I-75 before they all merge into the congested downtown connector, while still being accessible to US78 to the east. For many it is easier to get to Midtown than downtown, so more office growth has occurred there in recent history. Office rents are higher there. The same can also be said for Buckhead.

This is often why planners like commuter rail, even though it moves fewer people. It creates a central place where most parts of town can always feasibly commute to...assuming proper implementation.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by SAAN

This back and forth YES we WANT IT vs NO WE DONT will go on for MARTA until 2030 until we see 1 new station opened. Unless gas goes to $4-6 and stays there, there will not be any votes from N Fulton in a majority for MARTA to come up there. While there are alot of people who do want it up there and see all the benefits of it going to windward, there is a great majority that dont want it there due to ignorance/prejudices, fears, or straight up dont want transit in there neighborhood.

What votes? North Fulton approved MARTA back in 1971.

[MattCW]

Extending transit into the suburbs is absolutely beneficial to Atlanta. Yes, I said transit, not MARTA, because outside of the GA-400 corridor, the U.S. 78 corridor, the I-20 East corridor as far as Stonecrest, and I-20 West to six flags, the heavily used corridors all have existing railroad trackage for commuter rail, and extending Heavy Rail long distances like that isn't as economically feasible as using existing right of way. Why have Marietta/Cumberland and the Perimeter areas exploded in recent years? A good chunk of that is due to the shorter commutes from the northern suburbs, people just don't want to drive into Atlanta, so the businesses locate closer to the people. Not only would extending transit into the suburbs be beneficial from a business location perspective, but it would also enable suburbanites to actually go and spend money in Atlanta. I can pretty well guarantee that if there was decent transit from where I live into Atlanta, Atlanta would receive a couple hundred dollars in extra business revenue every year.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Extending transit into the suburbs is absolutely beneficial to Atlanta. Yes, I said transit, not MARTA, because outside of the GA-400 corridor, the U.S. 78 corridor, the I-20 East corridor as far as Stonecrest, and I-20 West to six flags, the heavily used corridors all have existing railroad trackage for commuter rail, and extending Heavy Rail long distances like that isn't as economically feasible as using existing right of way. Why have Marietta/Cumberland and the Perimeter areas exploded in recent years? A good chunk of that is due to the shorter commutes from the northern suburbs, people just don't want to drive into Atlanta, so the businesses locate closer to the people. Not only would extending transit into the suburbs be beneficial from a business location perspective, but it would also enable suburbanites to actually go and spend money in Atlanta. I can pretty well guarantee that if there was decent transit from where I live into Atlanta, Atlanta would receive a couple hundred dollars in extra business revenue every year.

Good points. I don't know why folks in, say, Johns Creek, would want to drive to Atlanta to shop and deal with the commute (at least on a regular basis). But, I bet they would take a train into town to do so.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by avbanks

Who is to say business will locate in the core? If MARTA is expanded to North Fulton or Cobb that makes those areas even more attractive for businesses...

That's an excellent point.

For instance, extending transit into North Fulton may simply facilitate growth along the 400 corridor. The relationship between transit and the growth of business and residential communities is complex.

We can look at the MARTA experience and see examples of rapid development near transit, as well as other cases where it seems to have had little or no impact. And of course the most rapid growth is often in areas that have no transit at all.

[cqholt]

We can look at the MARTA experience and see examples of rapid development near transit, as well as other cases where it seems to have had little or no impact. And of course the most rapid growth is often in areas that have no transit at all.

I think that has to do more with the stigma of MARTA. In other cities, proximity to transit stations is highly desirable. I do think that mindset is changing in Atlanta. A think some of the growth of Perimeter Center can be attributed to concentration of 3 transit stations.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I think that has to do more with the stigma of MARTA. In other cities, proximity to transit stations is highly desirable. I do think that mindset is changing in Atlanta. A think some of the growth of Perimeter Center can be attributed to concentration of 3 transit stations.

What concentration of transit stations? The area around Perimeter Center is not at all walkable.