Scientifically proven traffic solutions

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

There is not enough space for the entire metro inside I-285, much less in Atlanta proper.

That's a straw man, CW. I've never heard anyone make such a claim.

However, it is beyond dispute that the metro area could be vastly more compact. Its population density is a mere 630 people per square mile. Even Gwinnett County, which is about as thoroughly suburban as it gets, has a density more than 3 times that.

Don't forget that in 1950 the city of Atlanta had a population of 331,000 in about 52 sm. They were housed in the same pleasant, leafy neighborhoods that you see today. (Highrise residential was only a tiny component of the housing stock). I grew up in that environment myself and we had an abundance of yards and parks to play in, and traffic was quite manageable. That was also before freeways and MARTA. If folks wanted to use public transit they simply hopped on the bus.

If we continued to have even 1950s density the city would comfortably house 840,000 residents. And that's without any highrise condos or apartments.

Nobody who works in Atlanta or has a need to cut through on a regular basis is "forced" to live 30 or 40 miles away. They may have reasons which they consider valid to live that far out, but lack of closer-in land is not the problem.

[bhammaster]

Originally Posted by arjay57

That's a straw man, CW. I've never heard anyone make such a claim.

However, it is beyond dispute that the metro area could be vastly more compact. Its population density is a mere 630 people per square mile. Even Gwinnett County, which is about as thoroughly suburban as it gets, has a density more than 3 times that.

Don't forget that in 1950 the city of Atlanta had a population of 331,000 in about 52 sm. They were housed in the same pleasant, leafy neighborhoods that you see today. (Highrise residential was only a tiny component of the housing stock). I grew up in that environment myself and we had an abundance of yards and parks to play in, and traffic was quite manageable. That was also before freeways and MARTA. If folks wanted to use public transit they simply hopped on the bus.

If we continued to have even 1950s density the city would comfortably house 840,000 residents. And that's without any highrise condos or apartments.

Nobody who works in Atlanta or has a need to cut through on a regular basis is "forced" to live 30 or 40 miles away. They may have reasons which they consider valid to live that far out, but lack of closer-in land is not the problem.

While I agree that the city itself can be much denser and I mean literally, the whole ITP could easily hold two million ( about the same amount as Brooklyn) people in it if we built denser cost is a huge reason folks choose the burbs. Rent's and homes are simply too high for many people to live safely ITP.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

While I agree that the city itself can be much denser and I mean literally, the whole ITP could easily hold two million ( about the same amount as Brooklyn) people ....

Brooklyn has a density of 36,340 people per square mile. That's over 10 times the density in the city of Atlanta and 57 times the density in metro Atlanta as a whole. I can't imagine anyone seriously suggesting that we should (or could) attempt to replicate that.

What's wrong with simply sticking with our own 1950 standard? Drive around and look at the pleasant, leafy spacious neighborhoods from that era. There's plenty of room for a nice yard, if that's what you want. One of the reasons they are so desirable today is because they offer such comfortable living.

Regarding the costs, how do you figure that people are able to handle it in other cities?

The fact is, social costs are what they are no matter where people decide to live. If they choose to live 30 miles away from their destination, then that cost -- and I don't mean simply the price of gas, which is just the tip of the iceberg -- is going to be shifted somewhere else.

The issue is how we allocate those costs in society. Is it fair to further burden intown neighborhoods with more six lane, median-divided controlled-access thoroughfares for the convenience of people living 20-40 miles away? The folks living in these intown neighborhoods are already shouldering a heavy share in terms of higher housing prices, taxes and education expenses. Why should people who are avoiding these expenses by living far away be able to shift even more of the burden onto others?

[bhammaster]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Regarding the costs, how do you figure that people are able to handle it in other cities?

In NYCs case they either implement rent controls or they simply force the middle class out of the city, which is what is happening now.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

In NYCs case they either implement rent controls or they simply force the middle class out of the city, which is what is happening now.

Well, we're a long way from being NYC. It's still pretty affordable to live in the city of Atlanta.

[roadtrip75]

Atlanta and America could drastically ease its traffic problems and improve city planning and it wouldn't be very difficult. We would just have to respect the Constitution again. As long as we have our freedom of association curtailed by the federal government (backed by brute force at times), we will always have these problems.

The current trend is that our communities are getting more disjointed and run less efficiently. Don't think this trend will reverse itself.

Originally Posted by testa50

We need way more blinking yellow lights after hours, metrowide.

YES, YES, a thousand times YES!

[cqholt]

Well, we're a long way from being NYC. It's still pretty affordable to live in the city of Atlanta.

Yes, it is. Not everyone needs or wants a 2500 sq ft house. A modest 3/2 is completely doable in Atlanta.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Is it fair to further burden intown neighborhoods with more six lane, median-divided controlled-access thoroughfares for the convenience of people living 20-40 miles away?

It doesn't matter whether it's fair or how fair it is, because the construction of more six-lane, median-divided controlled-access thoroughfares Intown just simply is not happening, no matter what the reasoning may be.

The construction of new multi-lane, median-divided, controlled-access thoroughfares inside of the I-285 Perimeter is something that is so improbable that it is beyond politically-impossible at this point that any discussion of the possibility of large-scale ITP road-expansion seems to be something that is in the realm of fantasy.

I can't even see how anyone would think that any large-scale road construction projects would even be possible at this point in time inside of the I-285 Perimeter after the increasingly visceral reactions from the public to seemingly each and every large-scale road construction initiative that has been put forward over the last 2 decades since the completion of the controversial GA 400 Extension through North Atlanta and Buckhead.