Portland mayor: 'It'll take generations' to fix metro Atlanta's sprawl (North Atlanta: construction, live)

[JoeP]

The Portland Mayor is absolutely right. it's awesome that Atlanta (city) has reversed population decline in the 90s and has grown more dense, however their are very long term structural issues - one Buckhead, if the city were trying to reverse poor planning and growth, the core of the city would truly be the center of office and residential tower growth. Yes Midtown has made significant leaps in the last 10+ years, but for all that Midtown does, a lot is happening in Buckhead that is not sustainable. It's still a suburban set up, no matter how tall Buckhead gets. It just wasn't designed to be what it has become and doesn't have the infrastructure.

However, the much bigger problem is not gaining people in the city - that's happening, but there's too many people to move within city limits and many can't afford what they want or desire amenities not provided in the city etc.

So the issue then becomes makes the vast majority of the metro - the suburbs and exurbs more sustainable and that's where the Portland mayor is correct... with so much suburban development already in existence in a poorly planned manner (including infrastructure and lack of transit) - yes, it's a huge problem.

I work in Perimeter and it's a disaster. It didn't have to be and I don't see how it's remotely easy to correct.

Getting defensive doesn't change anything.

My point Atlanta would have to hold density to a significantly higher level than anything Portland will ever face. Can you imagine Portland holding over 1,300,000 in our lifetime... no. He basically talked tough about a controlling a population boom Portland will never see.

Portland's growth actually was (and I would assume still is) restrained because of its growth/zoning laws.

Greater Portland has 2,289,800 in 6,684 sq. mi.
Metro Atlanta has over 3,500,000 in just 1,800 sq mi.

I don't know how accurate that is, but it's important to compare apples to apples - one can't compare the same radius of two cities like that- it's doesn't tell the entire picture.

By limiting Atlanta's radius, you leave over 2 million people living in less density. There's a compounding nature as regions grow (like the reverse in city population and intown growth). Even with Portland's standards, it's still has American growth patterns... it just happens to be better than most American cities in that regard, but it's also a lot smaller than Atlanta so different dynamics are also at play.

At the end of the day, Atlanta has serious long term problems that must be addressed more significantly than they are now.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

If Portland mayor Charlie Hales thinks that "it'll take generations" to alter Metro Atlanta's predominantly sprawling development patterns, then he must not be even the slightest bit familiar with Metro Atlanta's extremely-powerful, domineering and profit-hungry land spectulation and real estate development community.

Though Metro Atlanta is already taking steps to offer more of a variety of development styles (particularly within the City of Atlanta which is leading the way with stronger zoning and development regulations and a cutting-edge urban development/redevelopment project like the Beltline), Metro Atlanta's predominantly-sprawling low-density development patterns will not be altered overnight.

...But it won't necessarily take as long as Portland Mayor Hales implied in his condescending self-righteous soapbox statement for Metro Atlanta to alter its development patterns as all that would have to be done for Metro Atlanta to become more dense is to upgrade its current mass transit network inside of I-285 and expand and implement those upgraded mass transit lines (bus and particularly rail transit lines) through outlying transportation corridors (anchored on radial Interstate and freeway spokes) where they would immediately become guides for future higher-density commercial, residential and mixed-use development.

Metro Atlanta's development patterns also will not (and should not) necessarily be altered across every nook and cranny of the metro region as it should be the free market and the will of the public (not government overregulation) that plays the overwhelmingly predominant role in determining when and how much Metro Atlanta becomes more dense.

A good transportation system/network should be able to adequately accommodate and serve both lower-density and higher-density development patterns (where applicable and as needed), not just one type of development pattern.

^^^^^
This. Especially the bolded parts.

[Marsha33]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

This 100%

Atlanta is laying the ground work to be a city much more dynamic and robust than Portland (and we already are in many ways since Portland is straight up BORING with a capital B). While I hate comparisons to other cities since we will eventually end up being unique, we're shooting to be more like a Shanghai or Sydney or Singapore and maybe even a London or Tokyo if we play our cards right. We're not trying to be a Portland. LOL

Edit:

That's not to say there aren't things Atlanta as a city could learn from Portland. They're NIMBYism though is putting them on a trajectory to remain a decent midsize town for ever. We have bigger plans thank you very much.

Atlanta has shown signs of becoming the next LA.

[Marsha33]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

How do people in the city subsidize folks in the burbs? You realize they are different governments right?

MARTA is one example.

[cdw1084]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I've seen this critique before that "rewards" Atlanta's urban sprawl because it has kept housing price in-check and, therefore, has permitted more lower-income minorities and immigrants to thrive. Portland is indeed a rather non-diverse metropolitan area. Guess what? So is my current home of Pittsburgh, and our cost-of-living is on par with Atlanta, if not even a bit less expensive. Pittsburgh has sprawl (even Portland does), but much of our new metropolitan growth in the suburbs is now being built via "Smart Growth" while urban neighborhoods are becoming even denser. Promoting sprawl will not necessarily keep an area "affordable" in the long-term, either. I moved to Pittsburgh from Northern Virginia, which was mile after mile of low-density urban sprawl that was ludicrously-priced.

What do I want to see more of in Atlanta? Atlantic Station-esque developments where people can live, work, shop, play, dine, etc. within walking distance (you know, the way people used to do only a few generations ago before cheap gasoline was all the rage?!) While some on this sub-forum balk at city neighborhoods like Lindbergh I foresee areas like that being "red hot" in about another decade due to their accessibility to transit and proximity to the urban core.

Widening every freeway to 16 lanes isn't going to solve Atlanta's traffic woes if that temporary "easy commute" just encourages another massive wave of further-out urban sprawl to creep up and eventually clog all 16 of those lanes.

Who cares what Portland and Pittsburgh does? Neither can hold a candle to metro Atlanta overall..

Moving on....

[JoeP]

Who cares what Portland and Pittsburgh does? Neither can hold a candle to metro Atlanta overall..

Moving on....

Wow. What an amazingly ignorant statement.

[alco89]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Wow. What an amazingly ignorant statement.

I think he means economics/importance. If so, it's true.

[cdw1084]

Originally Posted by alco89

I think he means economics/importance. If so, it's true.

Thanks...A lack of comprehension from the individual above you.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by Marsha33

Atlanta has shown signs of becoming the next LA.

How so?

[JoeP]

Thanks...A lack of comprehension from the individual above you.

No, the statement is very clear and yes a lack of comprehension is also very clear.