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LMAO, thanks, that was funny, but even though it was meant to poke fun, you can't watch that and not be awed by Chicago! One of the greatest cities on Earth.
Ok. We'll have to agree to disagree on what a well-maintained lawn looks like. I do believe in using a rake, having the lawn edged, etc. But that's just me. I pay someone else to do it if I'm too lazy to take care of my lawn myself. But that's just me.
Now, on to your other statement. You are obviously not knowledgeable of the reality of Chicago. No, the northside is NOT like Tuxedo Park in Atlanta. Actually, the northside is mostly working and middle class - JUST LIKE THE SOUTHSIDE. So that is the first area in which yoh are just wrong. Most of the people living in the City of Chicago are just regular working and middle class people. Just like most people living in the City of Atlanta are just working and middle-class people.
Second, did you not see all of the housing at the links listed with "S" and "W" indicators? All of that listed as "S" is southside and th s t listed as "W" is westside. The blocks shown are very representative of what it actually looks like. It is not an "urban decay," just like the north side is also not an urban decay and also does not look like Tuxedo Park in Atlanta. Tuxedo Park rivals Beverly Hills in appearance by the way (I lived less than 10 miles from Beverly Hills so I've seen it with my own eyes) and I live probably 2-3 miles from Tuxedo Park so I've checked that out too. Your statements in the post below are way off.
Furthermore, what does anything I've said have to do with segregation? But since you mentioned it, I guess you missed all of the threads on this Board in which it has been discussed time and again that all of the areas with the best schools intown are highly, highly racially segregated in terms of white and black people. This pattern replays itself in other areas as well around Atlanta. We discovered this unfortunate situation once again recently. Take a look at the populations of families in the City of Atlanta districted for Mary Lin, Morningside, Springdale Park, Sarah Smith, Brandon and Jackson in City of Atlanta and the racial make-up of those neighborhoods, the entry price point, etc. Then take a look at the rest of the City of Atlanta's schools and the racial make-up of those schools and neighborhoods. Actually, you will see that segregation is alive and well in Atlanta. The same goes for Johns Creek, East Cobb. These areas are heavily racially segregated (when viewing black vs white, which is the main way you can really compare Chicago generally). Or, better yet, look at East Cobb and West Cobb. Same county. But compare the $$$$ in the area and the racial make-up and the schools. The new segregation.
I don't know if you know this but one of the first cases of housing discrimination originated in Chicago. Chicago was a hotbed for real estate agent-directed steering of people of certain races to certain areas. It wasn't just by race but also ethnicity (polish, irish, etc). There was also redlining where ins companies would toy with v as lues and premiums. This is the reason that to this day, you have some white ethnic groups in the southwest side of the City, many blacks in the south side more east and central and going far south and other white ethnicities in neighborhoods on the north side. Even city officials were still living in the ethnicity they associated with until 15 or so years ago, I believe.
Unfortunately, Atlanta has a nasty history as well. As you might imagine, with the relics of Jim Crow. How would you imagine that the northern suburbs and north of 20 is so much more heavily white than south of 20 and the south suburbs of Atlanta (or do you think this huge phenom is pure coincidence)????
Segregation is a nasty problem that much of our country has suffered with and I really dislike it. Yet, when visitors to our Atlanta C-D Board come on talking about their race or ethnicity and asking us to basically steer them to an area of that race or ethnicity, the posters CONTINUE TO OBLIGE. This does not help Atlanta be anymore integrated and just continues segregation. I've said numerous times, I wish we would stop engaging ppl that do this. It is non-productive for the city overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot
So am I. I just don't see raking leaves as an important part of my life. I don't think it looks bad. I don't rake them either. I mulch them with the lawnmower when I take a notion. I guess us Southerners are too laid back for you. Also, southern cities are not as segregated as northern cities. In the south, people from different socio-economic and cultural backgrounds often live in close proximity to each other (or try to for a while). Up north, the entire 2/3 of Chicago is world famous for being urban decay while the north/northwest is meticulously maintained more like Tuxedo Park. In the south it is common for neighborhoods to be more mixed.
Atlanta is less segregated than Chicago....Chicago may be the most segregated city in the country to be honest and I've heard racial relations aren't doing well there....at all.
LMAO, thanks, that was funny, but even though it was meant to poke fun, you can't watch that and not be awed by Chicago! One of the greatest cities on Earth.
Agreed! Although some will not get it. As if the Wrigley Building is made of gum and gummy bears play baseball. Absolutely!
Atlanta is less segregated than Chicago....Chicago may be the most segregated city in the country to be honest and I've heard racial relations aren't doing well there....at all.
Interesting. Having lived in Atlanta proper, I found the city to also be segregated along color lines, with wealthy whites being on the north side, and poor blacks being on the south side. Not different from Chicago at all in that regard.
The major difference I notice is that there are a lot of working class whites in the city proper in Chicago on both the north and south sides and inner burbs, whereas I didn't see them at all in the city in Atlanta. It seems the well-to-do whites in Atlanta live in the city and the working class and poorer whites live in the burbs or more rural areas.
I don't agree with the question posed in the OP; no, I actually don't think Atlanta's downtown is the worst downtown in the South, although it could definitely use more multi-family development and street-level activity. Some people will agree with the OP based on their experiences and preconceptions, and others (including myself) will disagree.
That doesn't mean this thread should be derailed for the purpose of endless comparisons of Atlanta and Chicago. If users wanted to endlessly compare cities day after day, why not have a separate forum for that kind of stuff? Oh wait, there is one.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,277,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17
I don't agree with the question posed in the OP; no, I actually don't think Atlanta's downtown is the worst downtown in the South, although it could definitely use more multi-family development and street-level activity. Some people will agree with the OP based on their experiences and preconceptions, and others (including myself) will disagree.
That doesn't mean this thread should be derailed for the purpose of endless comparisons of Atlanta and Chicago. If users wanted to endlessly compare cities day after day, why not have a separate forum for that kind of stuff? Oh wait, there is one.
- skbl17
But you didn't add anything.... on the original thread topic? At least Atlanta's downtown wasn't being put down? While Chicago got brought in?
Interesting. Having lived in Atlanta proper, I found the city to also be segregated along color lines, with wealthy whites being on the north side, and poor blacks being on the south side. Not different from Chicago at all in that regard.
The major difference I notice is that there are a lot of working class whites in the city proper in Chicago on both the north and south sides and inner burbs, whereas I didn't see them at all in the city in Atlanta. It seems the well-to-do whites in Atlanta live in the city and the working class and poorer whites live in the burbs or more rural areas.
Chicago also has 2.2 million people vs just 450k living in Atlanta and because of population density, just 7-8 neighborhoods in Chicago is the population of Atlanta.
Regardless, tension between the white and black population in the city limits isn't high at all vs. Chicago where I've personally heard stories of the tension, then again, the entire Midwest from St. Louis to Detroit is facing massive racial issues.
Chicago also has 2.2 million people vs just 450k living in Atlanta and because of population density, just 7-8 neighborhoods in Chicago is the population of Atlanta.
Regardless, tension between the white and black population in the city limits isn't high at all vs. Chicago where I've personally heard stories of the tension, then again, the entire Midwest from St. Louis to Detroit is facing massive racial issues.
Interesting. Having lived in Atlanta proper, I found the city to also be segregated along color lines, with wealthy whites being on the north side, and poor blacks being on the south side. Not different from Chicago at all in that regard.
The major difference I notice is that there are a lot of working class whites in the city proper in Chicago on both the north and south sides and inner burbs, whereas I didn't see them at all in the city in Atlanta. It seems the well-to-do whites in Atlanta live in the city and the working class and poorer whites live in the burbs or more rural areas.
It is a bit different, at least as far as there are differences found in American cities currently.
I finally fished down the numbers to compare.
There are various demographic statistics regarding regarding racial segregation, most notably a dissimilarity index that measures what percentage of one race would need to move so that two compared races were equal across all neighborhoods given the overall racial distribution of the region.
Time and time again the highest indexes are New York, Millwuakee, Chicago, and Detroit.
The lowest indexes are typically found on the west coast and the South a small bit behind them. The Northeast and Midwest often have the higher values.
Yes, there is a traditional poorer black side and a traditional richer white side. However, region wide Black people don't stay in just certain neighborhoods. They are present throughout -most- suburbs and there are many more blended neighborhoods in the middle.
In the Chicago region this difference is much more pronounced neighborhood to neighborhood. You have many more that neighborhood to neighborhood, block to block, and suburb to suburb are more purely one race or another.
Chicago's is the 3rd highest in the country. 76% with 2010 census figures. With a 17% black population what this means is 76% of Black people would have to move neighborhoods for those 17% to be equally mixed with White people across all neighorhoods.
Atlanta has a one of the lower measures in the country for a city that has a sizable Black population (ie 10% or more). It is not as low as most West Coast cities though. There are also other cities in the South that are lower. Atlanta's is 59%
For both cities and most throughout the nation this has been trending down every decade. What I'm curious is how much it will stay true for a 100% post-gentrified city. Many European cities are highly segregated, however the traditional areas of wealth/dominate race/ethnicity is reversed. In Europe they traditionally were present in the city center and not the city fringe or suburbs.
Of course there are other types of indexes, but that all amount to the same thing. Chicago is one of the most segregated regions of the country.
This same trend holds for Hispanics and Asians, although the gap is smaller.
However, I'm glad you mentioned the differences in wealth. Atlanta is one of the highest wealth-segregated regions in the country and this does play a role in the racial segregation we do have. Much of the desegregation we have has much do to with the amount of Black families entering the middle class.
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Absolutely!
